Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Speaker amps for headphones
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Speaker amps for headphones - Page 104

post #1546 of 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by m17xr2b View Post
 

So 128mw into 91db sensitivity = 115db for audeze. I think that is enough for most people. I think most people do not understand how power affects sound level. Each doubling of power increases the sound pressure by 3db. I could not believe at first that going from 1mW to 2mW is the same as from 10W to 20W.

 

That's exactly the logic Jan Plummer used when I was on the phone with him, telling him to "take it easy" with my resistor network - that I just wanted enough resistance to kill the hiss and no more.

 

I'm trying to stay open-minded, because I know I'm clueless, but why does Audeze recommend a minimum of 1000mW for their LCD-2/3?  And why is Gary happier with fourteen thousand six hundred and sixty seven mW from his Cyclops than with 124mW from Jan Plummer's contraption (for his LCD-3)?

 

:confused_face_2:

post #1547 of 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

That's exactly the logic Jan Plummer used when I was on the phone with him, telling him to "take it easy" with my resistor network - that I just wanted enough resistance to kill the hiss and no more.

I'm trying to stay open-minded, because I know I'm clueless, but why does Audeze recommend a minimum of 1000mW for their LCD-2/3?  And why is Gary happier with fourteen thousand six hundred and sixty seven mW from his Cyclops than with 124mW from Jan Plummer's contraption (for his LCD-3)?

confused_face_2.gif

Honesty, I think the silly power handling capability of said cans is a unicorn. 14watts into a 91dB at 128mw efficient headphone is not jiving at all IMO . I think the problem you're having is the initial issue of excessive gain, followed by killing off a lot of power with the resistor network. If it were me, I would contact Jan about lowering the gain of the amp until hiss is in audible, and crank that sucker to 11 without a resistor network. smily_headphones1.gif
post #1548 of 2719

Well, it sounds as though we are a little closer to reaching a diencephalic ... :veryevil:

post #1549 of 2719
diencephalic - definition of diencephalic by the Free Online ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/diencephalic
di·en·ceph·a·lon (d n-s f -l n , -l n). n.

The posterior part of the forebrain that connects the midbrain with the cerebral hemispheres, encloses the third ventricle , and ..

. It was the part of my brain that was impaired at the time of my writing .


Just so we all know what I meant. I'm up !! smily_headphones1.gif. Sorry

Al D.
post #1550 of 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post


Honesty, I think the silly power handling capability of said cans is a unicorn. 14watts into a 91dB at 128mw efficient headphone is not jiving at all IMO . I think the problem you're having is the initial issue of excessive gain, followed by killing off a lot of power with the resistor network. If it were me, I would contact Jan about lowering the gain of the amp until hiss is in audible, and crank that sucker to 11 without a resistor network. smily_headphones1.gif

 

This makes so much sense, as it's the hiss that's causing everyone to ask Jan for a resistor box.  I've understood this all along, but never considered asking Jan Plummer to redesign my MG3 to reduce the gain.  My understanding is that this could involve replacing multiple components, at which point, I could end up with a different sound signature, I'm afraid, while achieving the goal of reducing the gain.  And I like the MG3 just as it is for use with my near-field monitors - where no hiss is heard in the absence of a resistor box.  And I like the MG3 just as it is, with resistor box in place, for the HD600. In other words, I'm not going to pursue this very logical suggestion to reduce the amp's gain for use with the LCD-2.  I could buy and modify a 2nd MG3, but the fear of altering its wonderful sound signature makes that a $500+? gamble. I'd rather find a different amp for my LCD-2 (if not just a different resistor box.)

 

Regarding the use of 14,000 mW to drive the LCD-3 (or even 1000 mW, as recommended by Audeze, for that matter) I can only imagine that there are benefits to using so much power that have nothing to do with achieving ear-splitting SPLs.  Gary is far from being the only Head-Fi member using gobs of Watts to drive his LCD-3 and surely these people aren't listening at levels much higher than 95dB, if that much. Head-Fi has many members using LCD-2 and -3 with everything from vintage receivers to new speaker amps, with ratings as high as 200 Wpc into 8-Ohms.  

 

So...  perhaps the LCD-2 and -3 are just much better controlled when the amp is crazy powerful. It's either that or, as you've implied, it's all in our heads - where the amp's power rating only has a placebo affect, and thus, 124 mW is more than enough power to drive the LCD-2 to the best of its abilities and I'm just imagining that the HD600 sounds better.  

 

Sadly, I am a huge believer in using equations to describe the real world.  I'm not a mathematician, but I am, rather, a rabid consumer of math - I love latching onto any formula that allows me to understand or better yet, take control of variables that affect a desired outcome.  But here, in the world of audio, the math seems to say one thing while people's ears, including mine, say another.   Arrrrrgh!

 

And in the end, the ears will always win.  

 

:o

 

Mike

post #1551 of 2719
Good morning all
The answer we all seek is not always
To be found in math. As math shows us
The hdvd800 has enough power to drive
The he6 cans. And it sounds very thin and tinny

Just an example people our ears are the real test

Al D
post #1552 of 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
  snip (Click to show)

This makes so much sense, as it's the hiss that's causing everyone to ask Jan for a resistor box.  I've understood this all along, but never considered asking Jan Plummer to redesign my MG3 to reduce the gain.  My understanding is that this could involve replacing multiple components, at which point, I could end up with a different sound signature, I'm afraid, while achieving the goal of reducing the gain.  And I like the MG3 just as it is for use with my near-field monitors - where no hiss is heard in the absence of a resistor box.  And I like the MG3 just as it is, with resistor box in place, for the HD600. In other words, I'm not going to pursue this very logical suggestion to reduce the amp's gain for use with the LCD-2.  I could buy and modify a 2nd MG3, but the fear of altering its wonderful sound signature makes that a $500+? gamble. I'd rather find a different amp for my LCD-2 (if not just a different resistor box.)

 

Regarding the use of 14,000 mW to drive the LCD-3 (or even 1000 mW, as recommended by Audeze, for that matter) I can only imagine that there are benefits to using so much power that have nothing to do with achieving ear-splitting SPLs.  Gary is far from being the only Head-Fi member using gobs of Watts to drive his LCD-3 and surely these people aren't listening at levels much higher than 95dB, if that much. Head-Fi has many members using LCD-2 and -3 with everything from vintage receivers to new speaker amps, with ratings as high as 200 Wpc into 8-Ohms.  

 

So...  perhaps the LCD-2 and -3 are just much better controlled when the amp is crazy powerful. It's either that or, as you've implied, it's all in our heads - where the amp's power rating only has a placebo affect, and thus, 124 mW is more than enough power to drive the LCD-2 to the best of its abilities and I'm just imagining that the HD600 sounds better.  

 

Sadly, I am a huge believer in using equations to describe the real world.  I'm not a mathematician, but I am, rather, a rabid consumer of math - I love latching onto any formula that allows me to understand or better yet, take control of variables that affect a desired outcome.  But here, in the world of audio, the math seems to say one thing while people's ears, including mine, say another.   Arrrrrgh!

 

And in the end, the ears will always win.  

 

:o

 

Mike

Sadly?  Nah... I applaud you!

I don't know how much attenuation you will need to get rid of the hiss, but it looks like a couple of experiments would really be revealing.  Start with the 50 ohms inline like Steve suggested, and see how the hiss is.  That is your 1 W mark.  Double the impedance until the hiss is gone (assuming its not gone with 50 ohms) and then see how you like the sound.

post #1553 of 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Good morning all
The answer we all seek is not always
To be found in math. As math shows us
The hdvd800 has enough power to drive
The he6 cans. And it sounds very thin and tinny

Just an example people our ears are the real test

Al D

Huh... I just went to the Sennheiser site and looked at the HDVD 800, but couldn't find a single piece of information about the ouput power.... Do you have the specs?

post #1554 of 2719
Look at the sen thread as well
post #1555 of 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by potterma View Post
 

Sadly?  Nah... I applaud you!

I don't know how much attenuation you will need to get rid of the hiss, but it looks like a couple of experiments would really be revealing.  Start with the 50 ohms inline like Steve suggested, and see how the hiss is.  That is your 1 W mark.  Double the impedance until the hiss is gone (assuming its not gone with 50 ohms) and then see how you like the sound.

 

Cool!  We're beginning to form a consensus as to how I should proceed.  And that, my friends, is priceless!  

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

:beerchug:

post #1556 of 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

 

Cool!  We're beginning to form a consensus as to how I should proceed.  And that, my friends, is priceless!  

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

:beerchug:

And now the fun begins.. !

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Look at the sen thread as well

Nah...  Too much work for idle curiosity...

post #1557 of 2719
No problem! Good luck!

se
post #1558 of 2719
Steve I have two amps ss that have low his u till music plays. It is gone even at low passages
Would a resister bridge help with this too. They are way louder than I would ever Need
They are portible to but have Ample battery life for 6 hours play so I could well
Afford the loss in playing time.
post #1559 of 2719
One is the alo audio.com/rx-mk3b
I use it with CIEM s 16 ohms
post #1560 of 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Steve I have two amps ss that have low his u till music plays. It is gone even at low passages
Would a resister bridge help with this too. They are way louder than I would ever Need
They are portible to but have Ample battery life for 6 hours play so I could well
Afford the loss in playing time.

Just to be clear, you're saying that the hiss is only audible when not playing music, but when music is playing, even at low levels it's not?

se
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Speaker amps for headphones