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Do bassy HP's with neutral mids and highs even exist? - Page 2

post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmOgER View Post

Ok, let's say price isn't a big concern. Does there is such thing: strong deep bass (with bigger impact than on dt770) and at the same time, mids and treble aren't recessed in any way with at least average soundstage, but closed type? 

Maybe 2-way drivers or smth?

 

Heya,

 

While the word recession is technical and lacks a quantifier to explain the degree of recession, there are several headphones that have wonderfully warm, rich, strong bass, while still having very nice mids (instead of saying recessed, let's just say that they still sound relatively normal and not so distant that it's distracting) and plenty of treble to give you that clarity and sparkle sound. Sometimes you can achieve this best by simply equalizing a headphone to ensure the mids are not drown out when you start playing with increased bass frequencies.

 

Some headphones to consider:

 

Denon D2000

Denon D5000

Mr Speaker Mad Dog (with SR007 stax pads)

AudioTechnica A900X

 

On the subject, the phrase "recessed mids" is slung around here left and right to a degree that is generalization and not helpful at all in a description nor accurate. There really should be a quantifier or simple description along with the phrase recessed mids to describe the actual relationship. One could do it with respect to the other frequencies. One could also do it with a description of whether or not it causes typical instruments/vocals which are nearly all mids to sound unnatural, distant, or harmful in general to the overall sound. That gives you a technical quantifier that one can use (frequency relationship) and a descriptor (how it actually sounds in reference to a common set of sounds, like voice). That would be helpful.

 

Very best,


Edited by MalVeauX - 2/1/13 at 12:05pm
post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

I can't comment on the ATH-ES10, because I haven't heard them yet, but the quote from that review is just nonsense tbh. If that reviewer thinks that the HD650's go extremely low than he either hasn't heard any high end headphones or he is just flat out lying. The HD650 is not a bassy headphone at all. It's warm which doesn't equal bassy.

 

I beg to differ. The HD650 properly amped does have good low-end. Are you sure you are not confusing the 650 with the 600?

post #18 of 36

Are you joking?  There is not much difference in bass between 650 and 600.  650 has more mid-bass hump but the two can not go too terribly low with any authority.  I would agree in not calling it a bassy headphone.  Bassy is something that describes Denon D2000 etc.

post #19 of 36

I'd say there's no such thing, but after hearing the Audeze LCD-2 ... let's just say it made me a believer.

post #20 of 36

Look into the ES10 and the Yamaha Pro 500. The ES10 hits harder but the Pro 500 sounds way more natural and balanced.

post #21 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Are you joking?  There is not much difference in bass between 650 and 600.  650 has more mid-bass hump but the two can not go too terribly low with any authority.  I would agree in not calling it a bassy headphone.  Bassy is something that describes Denon D2000 etc.

 

No, I'm not joking. Seriously, the HD650 with the proper amp and source does have a lot of bass. Both quality and impact. Just as a quick comparison, driven out of an O2, it's lacking bass. But driven out of a C421, it has noticeably more bass. Same thing with a cmoyBB with OPA627. I've also had the chance to hear the 650 with Burson HA-160D and some nameless tube amp, and it also had more bass out of the 160D/tube amp than out of the O2.

 

I'd agree that something like the D2000 is bassy... but sincerely, I don't think the HD650 is bass-light at all.

 

Just to be clear, I'm talking about bass impact rather than sub bass vibrations. The HD650 doesn't have a lot of vibrations, but... that's not all there is to bass, is it?

post #22 of 36

Are you insinuating that something like the O2 isn't 'properly amping' your HD650 while a little cmoy and tameless tube amp is-- all because they have more bass?

 

I've heard HD650 owners throughout time say they enjoy their 650s out of OTL tube amps the best.  I've heard the HD650 out of an OTL tube amp and a couple SS amps.  Barring the actual sound differences of the amps themselves--which I hope you're not mistaking for 'properly amping' (whatever that means), the HD650's bass is nearly not powerful enough to be considered bassy at all to my standards.

 

Bass impact isn't all there is to bass either, and there's more to sub-bass than just vibrations-- hell you can have mid-bass vibrations too, if whatever's being generated or played in the song calls for it. 

 

Bottom line is I would not recommend the HD650 as something bassy with neutralish mids to the OP.  I came away disappointed in it, and I wouldn't want others to as well.


Edited by TMRaven - 2/1/13 at 12:22pm
post #23 of 36

But I wasn't even recommending the HD650. It was just as a point of reference for another can (ES10), and then someone just had to nitpick about the HD650.

 

Let's leave that for another thread.

 

Here's a more proper comparison then: I pitched the ES10 against the DT770 250 Ohm already, and the ES10 still has more impact than the DT770 to my ears. It doesn't match the DT770 in sub-bass, but it has plenty of impact, and the midrange of the DT770 is noticeably recessed compared to the ES10.

post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

 

No, I'm not joking. Seriously, the HD650 with the proper amp and source does have a lot of bass. Both quality and impact. Just as a quick comparison, driven out of an O2, it's lacking bass. But driven out of a C421, it has noticeably more bass. Same thing with a cmoyBB with OPA627. I've also had the chance to hear the 650 with Burson HA-160D and some nameless tube amp, and it also had more bass out of the 160D/tube amp than out of the O2.

 

I'd agree that something like the D2000 is bassy... but sincerely, I don't think the HD650 is bass-light at all.

 

Just to be clear, I'm talking about bass impact rather than sub bass vibrations. The HD650 doesn't have a lot of vibrations, but... that's not all there is to bass, is it?

 

I agree completely with Raven. Bass has many parts to it, and unless you have heard headphones that are known for their excellent bass, you can't make that assumption that the HD650 is bassy. No one ever said that the HD650 are bass-light, they just aren't bassy. Simply put, you can't believe reviewer, other members, etc without doing some auditioning yourself. Warm is what comes to mind when I think of the HD650, never bassy and I believe many would agree with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

 

I beg to differ. The HD650 properly amped does have good low-end. Are you sure you are not confusing the 650 with the 600?


I'm not saying the HD650 doesn't have "good" low-end. And lets remember that "good" is relative to the person and their perception of sound. I'm saying if the OP wants a neutral headphone with a tad of emphasis on bass, that is not the HD650. I'm not confusing the HD600 and HD650, I've heard both and neither fits the OP's bill. I'm not taking anything away from either of the Senns, in fact I own the HD650 and love them to death, but they aren't bassy whatsoever. "Properly Amped" is another subjective phrase. Most people prefer their HD650 coupled with OTL amps, as do I. Properly amped can be anything from a FiiO E11 portable amp, to GS-X, the debate can go on and on, the fact is that the OP wants emphasis on bass, and the HD650 is not that headphone.

post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

I agree completely with Raven. Bass has many parts to it, and unless you have heard headphones that are known for their excellent bass, you can't make that assumption that the HD650 is bassy. No one ever said that the HD650 are bass-light, they just aren't bassy. Simply put, you can't believe reviewer, other members, etc without doing some auditioning yourself. Warm is what comes to mind when I think of the HD650, never bassy and I believe many would agree with me.


I'm not saying the HD650 doesn't have "good" low-end. And lets remember that "good" is relative to the person and their perception of sound. I'm saying if the OP wants a neutral headphone with a tad of emphasis on bass, that is not the HD650. I'm not confusing the HD600 and HD650, I've heard both and neither fits the OP's bill. I'm not taking anything away from either of the Senns, in fact I own the HD650 and love them to death, but they aren't bassy whatsoever. "Properly Amped" is another subjective phrase. Most people prefer their HD650 coupled with OTL amps, as do I. Properly amped can be anything from a FiiO E11 portable amp, to GS-X, the debate can go on and on, the fact is that the OP wants emphasis on bass, and the HD650 is not that headphone.

 

Yeah, but let me get this straight: I wasn't recommending the HD650. It served as a point of reference from a review I linked to, and just that.

 

The headphone I recommended was the Audio Technica ATH-ES10, and... for better or worse, you can go around and ask owners of that headphone to see if they'd describe it as bassy or not.

post #26 of 36
The soundmagic HP100 is supposedly very neutral but at the same time is supposed to have very deep bass with good impact while still remaining neutral-ish sounding. Also helps to have a decent amp. I'm tempted to buy one soon. Various people like it better than Audio-Technica M50, A900X, Sennheiser HD600 etc.
post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX View Post

Heya,

While the word recession is technical and lacks a quantifier to explain the degree of recession, there are several headphones that have wonderfully warm, rich, strong bass, while still having very nice mids (instead of saying recessed, let's just say that they still sound relatively normal and not so distant that it's distracting) and plenty of treble to give you that clarity and sparkle sound. Sometimes you can achieve this best by simply equalizing a headphone to ensure the mids are not drown out when you start playing with increased bass frequencies.

Some headphones to consider:

Denon D2000
Denon D5000
Mr Speaker Mad Dog (with SR007 stax pads)
AudioTechnica A900X

On the subject, the phrase "recessed mids" is slung around here left and right to a degree that is generalization and not helpful at all in a description nor accurate. There really should be a quantifier or simple description along with the phrase recessed mids to describe the actual relationship. One could do it with respect to the other frequencies. One could also do it with a description of whether or not it causes typical instruments/vocals which are nearly all mids to sound unnatural, distant, or harmful in general to the overall sound. That gives you a technical quantifier that one can use (frequency relationship) and a descriptor (how it actually sounds in reference to a common set of sounds, like voice). That would be helpful.

Very best,

+1.

I'd add the Kenwood KH-K1000 and Bose QC15 to that list as well. All have healthy low-end, without clash-trash (or non-existant) top-end, and without putting the mids out in Kansas. They do sound different from one another, but should satisfy your overall desires.
post #28 of 36

Pretty sure Ultrasone Pro 900 would be the answer. 

post #29 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcmusicans View Post

Pretty sure Ultrasone Pro 900 would be the answer. 

You call those highs neutral?

post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless1 View Post

You call those highs neutral?

And the mids not recessed? etc...rolleyes.gif
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