A headphone shootout from a speaker listener - Testing eight headphones from £ 80 to £ 1,200 - Page 5

Hi,
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spittis 

I really enjoyed reading your reviews, very honest and well written. Hopefully you test and share impressions of more 'cans' in the future.

Will try. I'm seeing if I can get the HiFiman HE-6 on loaner. I also want to try the Fostex T50 or maybe just the Mad Dogs, seeing I'm not that handy... Also need to see if I can get me grubby mitts on some Ultrasone.

Cheers Rich

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirmalanow 

Great review and am very interested in trying the iCAN amp. I will be getting a loaner unit for a listen and will post a review when I have finished trying it out.

Yes, make sure you cop a feel. Nothing beats trying things out before you pay up.

I would have never bought the iFi gear had I just read about it. At this kind of money buy blind? Not bloody likely. What I did hear though I fancied enough to part with a fair wedge...

Cheerio Rich

Mates,

While I am waiting to try more Headphones, I came across this Graph thingey at Headroom:

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?

I have added frequency response graphs to the reviews where possible and commented a little if and how they may relate to what i heard. Not that it tells everything, but it helps.

Cheers Rich

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiyu64 

Since you liked how the HE-500 was laid back, you should also check out the Audeze LCD2.2, which is the rivaling Magnetic Planar headphone.  The FR is almost ruler flat from 20Hz to 1khz, but it starts to roll off at around 800Hz, giving it a laid back dark signature.  They are what I'd call the perfect dark sound, anything darker(aka LCD3) would be too laid back and I'd fall asleep.  

Yes, I want to get a pair for test. I liked what I heard at the Headzone in Whittlesbury of the LCD-2, but they are rather dear. This headphone system is not my main one, but just for office/travel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiyu64 

Edit: bedlam inside, I see your iCANs, and they deliver 400 mW at 32 Ohms.  Audeze recommends At least 1W of power at 50 Ohms to adequately power the LCD2.2s.  Magnetic Planar headphones are really power hungry gluttons.  Funny thing is, Audeze's are generally easier to drive than Hifimans, which leads me to believe that you might be listening to the HE-500s inadequately powered, but your other observations about the HE-500 looks consistent with what I've read.

Well, I'm not the big on numbers (ask me at budget time), but I think this may not be as bad as you think, for me at least.

My speakers are 89dB/1W/1m and I drive them with 50 Watt tube amp's, even though Steen recommended much more power and solid state. This system goes plenty loud for my taste. Now the HE-500 are 89dB/1mW. I think going from 32 Ohm to 50 Ohm about halves the power available, I am was getting maybe 200mW into the HE-500.

Could be I'm way wrong here, but it makes me think driving the HE-500 with 200mW would be about as loud as driving my SD-1 Speakers with 200 Watt, four times as loud as my current amp. Now four times as loud as my current system is totally bonkers. I'd never play that loud.

Maybe the people at Audeze and HiFiman specify big power because it means expensive (and presumably very high quality) amplifiers, so it is less about the watt but the quality? Anyway, with the HE-500 I had plenty of reserve left at the levels I listen at. maybe for kids listening to trash metal more is needed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiyu64 

Oh and the HD800 is a picky eater of amps too, try it with some other amps and see if your impressions change.

 

You mean they may be even better than what I heard? To me they are about the best headphone on the Planet. Just they do not have the "not listening to headphones" feel I get from Stax and the planars, that is all...!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiyu64 

Edit 2: Oh, since you seem to like objective measurements.  Here is two more resource links for you.

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads

For each headphone, It has FR, Isolation, 30Hz and 300Hz square wave response, impedance and phase, %THD+noise, and impulse response.

 

If you want to go further.  This forum offers CSD(Cumulative spectral decay) plots.  In laymans terms it's an FR graph with a Z axis showing the time domain. 
Used to see how fast the driver decays and can show ringing/resonances in the driver.

 

Over-head view of some CSD plots for several flagship headphones, LCD3, STAX SR009, HD800, T1, etc.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/580283/lcd3-measurements/45#post_7898177

 

I hope you'll have fun with these

 

Thank you, had a look, this is too much information and hard to compare. I think I like the simple way Headroom do it much better, especially I can compare different ones. Actually, I was idly comparing AKG K701 with Shure SRH1440 and looking at the graph it struck me "this looks EXACTLY what they sounded". In isolation I probably would not have "got it"...

I don't "like" measurements, unless they are 90/60/90 and on a fit bird. But sometimes they are useful, They had this whole debate in the 90's in the british HiFi rags. Seems measurements do not tell you everything about gear, certainly the stuff I bought did not measure as well as some others, that to me sounded worse. What I found interesting was that my impressions of the sound of the various 'cans matched up quite well with how they measure. What shocked me was just how different these frequency responses are. I mean you can find 100 Quid worth of active speakers that measure WAY flatter than even the AKG K701, which was the flattest of the bunch and the one I personally fancy most (the HD-800 is excluded on ground of the lolly it takes, I mean that is nearly as much as I paid for my speakers!).

Cheers Rich

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

Your comments on the build quality of the he500  are quite possibly the most grossly inaccurate information that I have ever come across on head-fi. 

 

...

 

I don't discount that you could have possible gotten a defective product. It is certainly reasonable for this to happen with any product. But to assume that the entire product and line are as you describe them is mostly irresponsible. 

I can only talk about the product I had in my hands. It was as described. Parts where loose, screws did not fit and stuck out, all these things. I am not good with me hands but I could have done a better job in me garage.

I did notice that while some took exception in this thread, others experiences mirrored mine. So seems there is a lack of consistency in manufacturing or we simply have very different standards of what constitutes "well build".

It may be build like a tank, a russian T-34 at that, with visible welds, a bad paint job and screws sticking out.

I am not going to argue about this, if you think your HFM Phones lack the flaws I describe, post some photos with decent resolution of yours and we both shall see.

Nothing would make me happier than to admit that the HE-500's I had where bad samples or defective and the build not representative of what common punters get.

Gary, of who'm I borrowed them BTW is an ordinary punter. He is prepared to live with the build quality he got, I would have send them back.

Cheerio Rich

Hi,

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiyu64 

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidsh 

You can get speakers with a flatter frequency response, but i can tell you that as soon as you put them in your room, the frequency response would be all over the place if you dared to measure, because your room isn't perfectly acoustically suited for your speakers unless it is big and covered with foam or something.

Yea that is a big problem I see that lies in my way when trying to move to speakers - having to get acoustic treatment on your room and all the positioning etc.

The problem may be overstated.

You do need set up speakers correctly in the room and it may not be a good idea to play them in a glasshouse with no furniture. 

It  did take a fair bit to find the best positioning of the speakers in my front room and I had a dealer help, who had a Neutrik handheld analyser (charged me a pretty penny too for the service). The final result was pretty flat I remember and i rather chuffed with the result for quite a few years now I have nearly wall to wall carpet (shag of course) and sofa and chairs plus some shelf's, no foam or any such, not needed.

Stereophile has a good article on speakers and measurements:

http://www.stereophile.com/features/103/index.html

It contains two graphs of the same loudspeaker, a small standmounter.

One is "without room" measurement:

The other is a measurement of the same speaker taken in a room:

Both are quite flat and the room influence on the speakers not all that big.

Only the K701 is coming close among all the headphones I tested.

Cheerio Rich

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTCG 

I only take exception to the fact that you seem to paint a picture of HFM products as poorly manufactured, which is not accurate as a rule. As I said originally, any product can be defective no matter if you buy a $30 htf-600 or a $700 he500. The real question is whether the product line suffers from a consistent design flaw and or general build quality issues across the production of this headphone. 

 

I don't pretend to be the expert of all things HFM. I'm not. But I have owned a half dozen of their hp's and work daily with people on this forum who are new purchasers of these products and I'm absolutely not seeing the issues that you describe. I'll will happy to post pics for you later. Please do the same so that I can see the problems in detail. 

I have not noticed your pictures, I cannot borrow the HE-500's again until a few days, so instead I had a quick google for HiFiman pictures and it took me little time to find photos illustrating EXACTLY what I object to...

The first photo is actually from headfi first the original image:

I decided to highlight the problem areas:

What do we observe if we look at the bigger picture (just click on the darn thing)?

The little silver philips screws that hold the drivers to the rest are way too small and do not fit right. Plus, EXPOSED 10 pence for a kilogram screws on ANYTHING, please?

Actually, the HE-500's I had used black screws with a much larger head (and looking a little classier, don't hold yer breath though), but which were to large for the indentions and stuck out like sore thumbs.

So cheap black screws that stick out or even cheaper silver screws that are too small. Your choice. Both are awful. Surely there is a better way to do this?

And the bigger issue, the round pieces that hold the earpieces to the spring steel headband have flat surfaces. Yet the headband is curved. The results - gaps big enough to drive whole herds of camels through (the ones that will not pass through the eye of a needle in the good book)...

Come on, this is totally pants. I used to have an Alfa Spider which was a disaster in quality. But even the gaps on that POS, screwed together very badly in italy, had NOTHING like this.

BUT we are not finished yet...

Now look at em Earpads. Look close. They aint flat, not by a long stretch.

So when you clip them on, they have pressure and want nothing better than to do a free willy and guess you what!

Give em the slightest chance (like move yer noggin and I don't mean head-banging either) and they do a full on Freddie "I want to break free".

Come on, some of me mates hang out at the halfbakery, they'd say it ain't dough yet!

I'm sorry, but there aint no nice way of saying this.

On a hairy arse project by an incompetent customer of bollocks to quality (B&Q - a DIY store), a bit sorry and sad, but that DIY for you.

On a 100 Quid pair of headphones, like WAY OFF, get off already ya tossa.

On 700 Quid headphones?

I may be moby dick. As moby dick as that Norwegian Blue Parrot. Pining for the fjords. Run down the curtain. Joined the choir invisible! Go, pull me finger.

Sorry, nothing I'd take into me gob is adequate to express my contempt at this level of "quality" and me mom taught me never to say anything I'd not take into me mouth!

So, build like a tank? Great quality for 700 Squid?

Lets just call that big load of old bollocks (sorry mom).

Very cheesed off Rich