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The LiFePo4 Battery - A DAC Revolution - Page 2

post #16 of 23

TheWuss,

 

How are you enjoying the Tabla and Muto DAC? I have the Tabla and Muto-X combination in my home system, the sound is very analogue and utterly beguiling.

 

Incidentally, Human Audio will soon be releasing a battery powered headphone amp called the `Sileo'. Photo below.

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Andy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuss View Post

the battery revolution is still going strong at the wusster house...

added the Human Audio Tabla to the stable today, to make it a matching transport for the Muto DAC.

 

lots of burn-in before i will know much about the sound...

 

 

 

post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxide View Post


VERY good question.
I had an eye opening experience with two different type of batteries a few weeks back. I used a lead acid 12V battery (which produces around 14.4V in low drain mode) and a LI-PO battery (which produces 12.4V in low drain mode) with a DAC kit I bought from China to play with. The lead acid battery produced a far more analog sound, whilst the Li-Po battery made the bass sound lean and devoid of much slam. I am still not able to explain why though.

Hmmmmm....
probably has to do with the noise created by the battery and the output impedance of the battery.
I'm not joking, all batteries will produce noise, but the noise spectrum my be different, and all batteries have an output impedance.
How many mA*hrs was each battery? I.e. how much capacity did the batteries have?
Even this spec can be misleading, it must be referenced to a time discharge, i.e. @8 hrs?......@20 hrs?
post #18 of 23

The lead acid battery is from Yuasa and it says 2.8Ah on it. The Li-po pack says it is 5600mA.

You could be right about the internal battery resistance and the discharge rate. 
 

post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smial1966 View Post

TheWuss,

 

How are you enjoying the Tabla and Muto DAC? I have the Tabla and Muto-X combination in my home system, the sound is very analogue and utterly beguiling.

 

Incidentally, Human Audio will soon be releasing a battery powered headphone amp called the `Sileo'. Photo below.

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Andy.

 

 

Andy - so far, the Tabla/Muto combo is simply fantastic.

I was already enjoying the Muto very much with the Audiophilleo2/PurePower.

The Tabla, with about 12 hours burn-in, is showing me that it will at least sound as good as the Audiophilleo.

 

Re: the new headphone amp.  just - wow.

Looking forward to hearing more about it...

I just love Human Audio's aesthetic sensibilities.

I must say, their Libretto CD unit is stunning...  as are their speakers.

 

cheers,

Brent


Edited by TheWuss - 2/28/13 at 10:46am
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxide View Post

The lead acid battery is from Yuasa and it says 2.8Ah on it. The Li-po pack says it is 5600mA.

You could be right about the internal battery resistance and the discharge rate. 
 

 

So it appears that the Yuasa is 2.8 Ahr, the LiPo battery is 5.6 Ahr.

This means 2.8 Amps X 1 hour.

The problem with a spec like this is to properly compare them they must be referenced to 2.8 Ahr @ 8 hours or something like that so you know how long you can draw current from it before battery voltage drops below it's critical discharge value, i.e. you do not want to over discharge a battery.

 

So if this number is referenced to 10 hours then you can draw 0.28 Amperes for 10 hours:     0.28 Amperes X 10 hours = 2.8 Ahr.

Batteries are not linear so you cannot extrapolate it to 8 hours or twenty hours or 100 hours.

They will give numerous specs for numerous discharge times.

 

At first glance the Li-Po looks superior, but obviously something else is going on.

The batteries will have a complex output impedance, i.e. some resistance, inductance & capacitance.

But I would imagine that a charged battery should be quieter than an AC-DC power supply!

post #21 of 23

Brent,

 

Glad to learn that you're enjoying the Tabla/Muto combination, as in my opinion the form factor and performance of both is outstanding! 

 

The Sileo headphone amp is encased in bamboo and should run for at least 10 hours when released soon. I've pre-ordered one and it'll complete an off grid system of - MacBook Air (SSD) + Tabla/Muto-X + Sileo. 

 

Cheers,

Andy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuss View Post

 

Andy - so far, the Tabla/Muto combo is simply fantastic.

I was already enjoying the Muto very much with the Audiophilleo2/PurePower.

The Tabla, with about 12 hours burn-in, is showing me that it will at least sound as good as the Audiophilleo.

 

Re: the new headphone amp.  just - wow.

Looking forward to hearing more about it...

I just love Human Audio's aesthetic sensibilities.

I must say, their Libretto CD unit is stunning...  as are their speakers.

 

cheers,

Brent

post #22 of 23

The thing about batteries is there is a law of diminishing returns,  not everything in a DAC can run off the voltage of the battery there are still regulators sometime dc-dc buck converters and various devices that create their own noise and jitter.  The lifepo4 batteries are a great alternative to a mains transformer but it doesn't guarantee a good DAC design.  But I do hope that we see more designs with lithiu based batteries it just makes a lot of sense.

post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by catfish View Post

The thing about batteries is there is a law of diminishing returns,  not everything in a DAC can run off the voltage of the battery there are still regulators sometime dc-dc buck converters and various devices that create their own noise and jitter.  The lifepo4 batteries are a great alternative to a mains transformer but it doesn't guarantee a good DAC design.  But I do hope that we see more designs with lithium based batteries it just makes a lot of sense.

 

I know what you mean: I have a FiiO E17, it has a high frequency bzzz even when running strictly off batteries with no input source.

Then use a linear regulator to get down to 5 Vdc or 3.3 Vdc or 2.5 Vdc or whatever.

May not be as efficient, but it will be quieter.


Edited by Chris J - 3/2/13 at 7:37am
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