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Formula 1-fi (Read the First Post!) - Page 69

post #1021 of 3083

  another MB 1-2.

post #1022 of 3083
Ruiner.
post #1023 of 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post
 

  another MB 1-2.

Awake now :)

post #1024 of 3083
Quite the ending, that's for sure.
post #1025 of 3083

A bit disappointed with Massas racecraft in the end. But he has never been a great tactician.

post #1026 of 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post
 

Awake now :)

 

LOL, what a race, the best so far this season, too bad for Massa and Perez, what a crash.

post #1027 of 3083

Best in quite a while, honestly - better than anything last season either. Hopefully that will shush all the people who were going on about how the Mercs were only in front because of their huge horsepower advantage - even down 160 hp Rosberg was still faster through the corners than anyone except possibly the Red Bulls. Personally, Rosberg would be my Driver of the Day despite Ricciardo getting his first win; keeping ahead for that long with such a huge disadvantage - and avoiding ruining his brakes in the process - was mighty impressive to me.

 

I do wonder if we've just seen the championship deciding race, however. But you figure Nico has to get a DNF some time, right?

post #1028 of 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exediron View Post
 

Best in quite a while, honestly - better than anything last season either. Hopefully that will shush all the people who were going on about how the Mercs were only in front because of their huge horsepower advantage - even down 160 hp Rosberg was still faster through the corners than anyone except possibly the Red Bulls. Personally, Rosberg would be my Driver of the Day despite Ricciardo getting his first win; keeping ahead for that long with such a huge disadvantage - and avoiding ruining his brakes in the process - was mighty impressive to me.

 

I do wonder if we've just seen the championship deciding race, however. But you figure Nico has to get a DNF some time, right?

 

IMO this time round Hamilton's DNF could be of his own doing. He don't know how to nurse his ailing car to the finish line.

post #1029 of 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

IMO this time round Hamilton's DNF could be of his own doing. He don't know how to nurse his ailing car to the finish line.

 

I'm inclined to agree; there was that puff of smoke as he out-braked himself trying to catch Rosberg, whereas Nico just slowed down through the corners. I know several drivers (Alain Prost perhaps most prominently) always say that the way you drive the car can make car failures much worse than they would have been otherwise, or alternatively nurse the car to prevent such.

post #1030 of 3083

Don't know if Hamilton was to blame here. There may have been some other mischief going on with the engine other than the electicals. I'll wait to see what the post race pundits have to say about the failure.

 

What was really interesting here to me, was the way the complexion of the race changed having 7 laps under the safety car at the start. That seemed to really level out the field when fuel conservation was not paramount.

 

Love Dead Bulls words to Vettel, what was it again? Something like hang back Riccairdo will run out of brakes :D

post #1031 of 3083

Qualification was an indication it was going to be very close! They just suggested Riccardo would ruin his tires trying keeping to close to Perez. 

 

I heard Rosberg had more wear  on his front brakes and Hamilton more on his rear. British media really want to make this a Prost vs Senna thing where Nico know all about the car and all Lewis know is how to drive fast lol.

I recon Lewis know a bit about a formula car also and that Nico can run around the circuit at a decent pace :)

post #1032 of 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post
 

Qualification was an indication it was going to be very close! They just suggested Riccardo would ruin his tires trying keeping to close to Perez. 

 

I heard Rosberg had more wear  on his front brakes and Hamilton more on his rear. British media really want to make this a Prost vs Senna thing where Nico know all about the car and all Lewis know is how to drive fast lol.

I recon Lewis know a bit about a formula car also and that Nico can run around the circuit at a decent pace :)


Ok well lets get down to nuts and bolts here. Rosbergs numbers just aren't that good. They never have been. He's doing well with an unbeatable car, but in this era of the sport that's no big endorsement.

He has had throughout his career a huge PR machine behind him and that had made him a media darling. I'm no big fan of his or Hamiltons but between the two, if I had to hire a driver for my F1 team, it sure as hell wouldn't be Rosberg.

Prost Senna comparisons are just a dried out medias way of trying to generate interest. There is no comparison there whatsoever.

post #1033 of 3083

It´s Lewis that has this PR machine going??? Of course it get fueled by the guy winning some WCs also but already when he came to F1 he was a golden boy already and he delivered instantly in a winning car :). It´s the car that wins WCs first and foremost always been like that in F1.

 

As for Nico he has done a good job. Just making Michael Schumacher look like a noob in his comeback has to count for something. He has done a good job in the cars he has been in and it´s no coincidence he has more points then Lewis so far.

 

You know the saying to finish first you first have to finish. Hamilton did have some dog years in McLaren where he didn´t quite realize this I hope he don´t go back there.

 

I would recon both Lewis and Nico is faster then Senna and Prost. Just better training and more professionalism from young age :)

post #1034 of 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post
 

I would recon both Lewis and Nico is faster then Senna and Prost. Just better training and more professionalism from young age :)

 

That's an interesting point, and one that would certainly collect heavy levels of flak in certain circles, but I have often wondered how the speed of a modern driver stacks up to that of a 'classic' era driver. My personal take is that at the top they're probably very equal, while the gap between the top and the rest is much smaller. Training and professionalism can only take you so far, and the best of any area have that little bit beyond that can't be taught. So I think if you were to take the best driver from 1988 and pit him against the best from 2014 in an identical car unfamiliar to either they would probably perform similarly, whereas if you did the same for the weakest driver I expect the 2014 example *cough* Ericson *cough* would beat his 1988 counterpart handily.

 

In point of fact I think one of the traits that allowed Senna in particular to stand out in his era is pretty useless in modern F1, which was his courage and utter unconcern for risks. In his day you needed that to drive on the limit, whereas a modern driver really doesn't - modern F1 cars just aren't that dangerous anymore, so people don't need extraordinary courage to put themselves in situations where a major accident is possible: case in point the Massa/Perez crash, which in 1988 would almost certainly have killed one if not both.

 

Personally, and perhaps controversially, my own opinion is that Lewis would have done pretty well in the 1980s whereas Nico would have struggled. Nico seems able to match Lewis primarily by working very well with his support team and analyzing heaps of data to figure out what Lewis is doing better and copying it; that wasn't nearly as easy to do back then. Similarly I think all that data available now combined with the lower risk factor probably would mean that Prost would be closer to Senna's ultimate speed if they had both driven modern F1 cars. Although Senna would almost certainly get his license suspended over the course of a season in modern F1 anyway... :rolleyes:

post #1035 of 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post
 

It´s Lewis that has this PR machine going??? Of course it get fueled by the guy winning some WCs also but already when he came to F1 he was a golden boy already and he delivered instantly in a winning car :). It´s the car that wins WCs first and foremost always been like that in F1.

 

As for Nico he has done a good job. Just making Michael Schumacher look like a noob in his comeback has to count for something. He has done a good job in the cars he has been in and it´s no coincidence he has more points then Lewis so far.

 

You know the saying to finish first you first have to finish. Hamilton did have some dog years in McLaren where he didn´t quite realize this I hope he don´t go back there.

 

I would recon both Lewis and Nico is faster then Senna and Prost. Just better training and more professionalism from young age :)

Hey Lew is not the one nicknamed "Britney". Back when he was a Williamsite, you couldn't swing a dead cat without seeing an interview with him. I was more than annoyed that the voice of GP racing at the time had yet to do anything of note other than being the spawn of the only world champion who almost got the title without winning a single race. I'm petty that way so my grudge against Nico goes a long way back.

 

More points, less wins, like vater like sohn:)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exediron View Post
 

 

That's an interesting point, and one that would certainly collect heavy levels of flak in certain circles, but I have often wondered how the speed of a modern driver stacks up to that of a 'classic' era driver. My personal take is that at the top they're probably very equal, while the gap between the top and the rest is much smaller. Training and professionalism can only take you so far, and the best of any area have that little bit beyond that can't be taught. So I think if you were to take the best driver from 1988 and pit him against the best from 2014 in an identical car unfamiliar to either they would probably perform similarly, whereas if you did the same for the weakest driver I expect the 2014 example *cough* Ericson *cough* would beat his 1988 counterpart handily.

 

In point of fact I think one of the traits that allowed Senna in particular to stand out in his era is pretty useless in modern F1, which was his courage and utter unconcern for risks. In his day you needed that to drive on the limit, whereas a modern driver really doesn't - modern F1 cars just aren't that dangerous anymore, so people don't need extraordinary courage to put themselves in situations where a major accident is possible: case in point the Massa/Perez crash, which in 1988 would almost certainly have killed one if not both.

 

Personally, and perhaps controversially, my own opinion is that Lewis would have done pretty well in the 1980s whereas Nico would have struggled. Nico seems able to match Lewis primarily by working very well with his support team and analyzing heaps of data to figure out what Lewis is doing better and copying it; that wasn't nearly as easy to do back then. Similarly I think all that data available now combined with the lower risk factor probably would mean that Prost would be closer to Senna's ultimate speed if they had both driven modern F1 cars. Although Senna would almost certainly get his license suspended over the course of a season in modern F1 anyway... :rolleyes:

Actually you make a point in there which I am almost loathe to mention ( and surely would not on any "expert" F1 board. The driver most like Senna in the pack right now is actually Perez.

 

The 80's were a wicked cauldron and a "development" driver was literally worth his weight in gold. That is actually where the current generation of drivers were gestated. It's no co incidence that all the junior racing programs mentor the technical attitudes into these guys. Team mates in the 80's could seem like they were driving different cars all together (sometimes they were, but that's another story;)) because whoever got the best info back to their crew got the car developed faster. It was a time when Fridays testing could well result in a call back to the shop resulting in brand new parts showing up on the Saturday. A Hamilton would be the front runner and a Nico would be the "get the parts the next race" driver.

 

Anyone else catch the Red Bull message to Ricciardo. "find out where you think you can pass him and we'll work out the energy"? Appears that someone in F1 has twigged to John Boyds EM equation:)

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