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Ipod classic frustration - Looking for good dap with great storage capacity - Page 2

post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marburger View Post

Hifiman 601 would give you good step up, from your current ipod classic.

Jesus Christ, you clueless "audiophiles" need to STOP making awful recommendations like that, it's really aggravating. The Hifimans suffer from even higher output impedance (10-30Ω). His problem would be even more pronounced. This is the HM 601 with UE Triple Fi 10 IEMs:


Edited by skamp - 1/26/13 at 9:01am
post #17 of 47

2 skamp, 

keep your childish comments for yourself. Your graph does not explain me anything. i am talking about devices, which i own and have some experience. 

post #18 of 47
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. The graph shows the influence of high output impedance on IEMs with a non flat impedance curve. It's been explained many times already. The HM 601 would be a terrible match with the OP's IEMs and would only accentuate the problem he's having.

In the UE Triple Fi 10's case, it results in over-emphasized mids, and non-existant highs. That's what the graph shows.

In the OP's case (Shure SE535), it would result in over-emphasized highs, much more (much worse!) with the HM 601 than with the iPod Classic.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, I can't help you. But please don't talk about stuff that you don't understand and make awful recommendations.

Sorry for being so harsh, but that kind of recommendation is so pervasive around here, it's really annoying. Some newbie who doesn't know any better could spend a substancial amount of money on bad gear, and they would hate you for recommending it to them, rightly so.
Edited by skamp - 1/26/13 at 9:21am
post #19 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. The graph shows the influence of high output impedance on IEMs with a non flat impedance curve. It's been explained many times already. The HM 601 would be a terrible match with the OP's IEMs and would only accentuate the problem he's having.

In the UE Triple Fi 10's case, it results in over-emphasized mids, and non-existant highs. That's what the graph shows.

In the OP's case (Shure SE535), it would result in over-emphasized highs, much more with the HM 601 than with the iPod Classic.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, I can't help you. But please don't talk about stuff that you don't understand and make awful recommendations.


Thanks Skamp, i get what you say. Hifiman 601 might have a nice sound in general, but not in my case. The more I've been reading about the subject of impedance and IEMs the more your suggestions are starting to make sense and I'm understanding why the low impedance is important, more than just the general quality of the dap, as the sound quality might be awesome but if it will accentuate the frequencies I have the most problems with (in my case highs) that will be absolutely bad for me. Of course impedance is not all as probably daps with similar impedance might have quite different SQ due to other specs but I get how I should try and find one with a low impedance.

I think I'll get a sansa clip+ or try out some friends' daps just to try and find out to how much the lower impedance helps the sound.

Ah, if only I hadn't tried out my se535s with other sources than my ipod I'd just be satisfied with how they sound with it (so much better than any previous iems) but having heard them sound even better now I can't rest until my search is over biggrin.gif

post #20 of 47

2 skamp, 

i am curious right, how you was not banned  due to your aggressive  behavior until now, although you had posted a lot. 

You are comparing high, mids, low  of ipod  with Hifiman`s sound graphs. what a joke ! I am sure now, you did not listen to any of them. 

If you did not understand anyway, it does not matter. 

Because, i am talking to the topic starter, not you, young man.   

post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marburger View Post

You are comparing high, mids, low  of ipod  with Hifiman`s sound graphs. what a joke !

Your blatant ignorance makes me wanna cry a little.
Quote:
Originally Posted by riccardo View Post

I'm understanding why the low impedance is important, more than just the general quality of the dap, as the sound quality might be awesome but if it will accentuate the frequencies I have the most problems with (in my case highs) that will be absolutely bad for me.

There's a whole controversy around the AK100's impedance of 22Ω exactly for that reason. It's so bad that it prompted Red Wine Audio to sell their services to modify the DAP and reduce its impedance to near 0Ω, thereby making it suitable for such balanced armature IEMs (and other headphones with non-flat impedance).
post #22 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post


There's a whole controversy around the AK100's impedance of 22Ω exactly for that reason. It's so bad that it prompted Red Wine Audio to sell their services to modify the DAP and reduce its impedance to near 0Ω, thereby making it suitable for such balanced armature IEMs (and other headphones with non-flat impedance).

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, is it possible, however, for some daps or other sources with higher impedance to have an "unnaturally" warm sound thereby contrasting the effect that the high impedance would have on the highs of the 535s and thus still making them sound good? I mean, i still get why a flat and natural response through a low impedance source would be better, after all I prefer to hear the music as it was meant to be, and that's the kind of dap I'm looking for, but since I think I'll be trying out different daps and sources from friends before taking my final decision, I was wondering if it was possible that a specific sound signature could hide the problem I'm having (while of course maybe highlighting other different problems...).

post #23 of 47
Short of using DSPs intentionally (like with Cowon's BBE effects), I would be wary about a DAP that sounds audibly "warm" by default. I can't think of any DAP that's like that. It would be a pretty bad deal though, because while it might sound OK with the Shures (I'm not sure at all that would be the case), it would sound too warm with other headphones. It would be very restricting. DAPs with near 0Ω impedance are clearly the safer choice, IMO.

Of course, there's no reason you shouldn't get a first hand experience with various DAPs if you can get your hands on them.
post #24 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post

Short of using DSPs intentionally (like with Cowon's BBE effects), I would be wary about a DAP that sounds audibly "warm" by default. I can't think of any DAP that's like that. It would be a pretty bad deal though, because while it might sound OK with the Shures (I'm not sure at all that would be the case), it would sound too warm with other headphones. It would be very restricting. DAPs with near 0Ω impedance are clearly the safer choice, IMO.


Oh, I'm totally with you on that. In fact, I was wondering about that not to be fooled by the warm sound and to avoid them, if anything. Because, being the sibilance and the highs one of my main problems, I'm judging other sources by that standard but that of course might make me skip over the fact that they might be lacking in other frequencies or in details. Anyway, thanks for all the precious info.

post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marburger View Post

i am curious right, how you was not banned  due to your aggressive  behavior until now

I'm excessively frustrated with the rampant ignorance on this forum, the systematic rejection of solid science (which happens to make all of our gear tick!) and glaring evidence, and the systematic recommendations without discernment of so-called "audiophile" DAPs with schiity / buggy / severely lacking firmwares and which are objectively inferior to other, more mainstream and sometimes cheaper DAPs, for various reasons. So yeah, I tend to sound harsh.

You were just plain wrong here, and your insistance and ill-informed derision only made it worse. Fighting ignorance, when it's defended with so much misplaced zeal, by so many people, get's really tiresome and unnerving. And to add insult to injury, you guys always refuse to learn anything. It's as if that would profoundly offend you. rolleyes.gif
Edited by skamp - 1/26/13 at 11:01am
post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marburger View Post

2 Riccardo, 

 

Hifiman 601 would give you good step up, from your current ipod classic. I had all ipods, iphone and they sounded same muffled and with "toy" like soundstage. Hifiman sounds very good even if you move to high end custom iems. Mine plays with UM Miracle very fine. Besides you can use multiple sd cards up to 32 gb. But I am fine with my current 16 gb capacity, i do not carry large music library. 

None of the iPods I have owned and heard ever sounded "muffled". blink.gif

post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by riccardo View Post

Thanks for the info. Did you ever try the Colorfly C3? How easy is to use the UI and is it possible to do stuff such as create playlists on the go? I'll have a look to the topics dedicated to it in here too, but I was wondering if you had any answers to those questions.

Yes, I own Colorfly C3, the UI is easy enough, C3 is only for music, you won't find any features here such as playlists or disco lights, it's designed simply around the sound quality to play one folder at a time. I also own the Clip+ and Ipod touch the Colorfly C3 is a much better sounding player.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/637417/colorfly-c3-appreciation-and-discussion-thread
Edited by H20Fidelity - 1/26/13 at 4:13pm
post #28 of 47

Maybe this can make it a bit simpler, though it is most likely posted in a wiki sticky or the sound science section already in some form or another.

 

It's basically an interaction between player output ohms and the ohms on the cans/iems. 

Some things can swing all over the place during use, whereas some are seen as a constant resistive load and not as affected meaning they don't electrically swing around/fluctuate in response/change as much during input signals.( orthodynamics ) and aren't too concerned

 

 

Ideally, you should aim for player with an output ohms as low as possible which will accommodate the widest range of cans especially if using low ohm IEM's.  Headphones that are at least 8 times ( was that it I forget now ) or more the output of the player

 

I can't believe they actually released a player with 22 on the output, just limiting ideal can choices though probably fine with fullsized stuff with 250 ohms and upwards but lesser things would get all goofy with being able to adequately deal with the cans impedance ( ohms ) and that's where things get wonky by messing up the electrical aspects of the supply. Throws the headphones "ideal" comfort zone off it was designed towards. I guess like compressing a can of slippery sardines, when it is wider they fit nicely, but when it gets compressed and more cramped ( the range between player and cans ) then things start slipping out of the top, and some pop out completely :)

 

 

.I may be full of crap no expert here.

At least if this simplifies it in BASIC terms GENERALLY it's what i wanted to do.

 

aw heck i will post this anyhow and regret it later. Not had enough coffee yet for logical thinking. that's what the edit function is for haha

 

Please fell free to correct the hell out of this post it's got to be sort of flawed somewhere :)

 

At least it gets the discussion sorted out or closer to that anyhow.

 

THE IMPORTANT PART:And if you have a setup and current combination you like the sound of that's what all this hobby is aboutbeerchug.gifdone deal . but if we are going to start looking at the deeper technical sides then we get into all this.

Doesn't change the fact you personally like the sound you got goin' on.

 

 

I am really curious  as to the suggested DAP's and what the Original Poster decides on. ph34r.gifpopcorn.gif

 

damping factors are also sort of explained here too among other places

http://www.head-fi.org/t/253489/ultrasone-proline-650-mods/60#post_3235914


Edited by nick n - 1/26/13 at 8:21pm
post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marburger View Post

2 skamp, 

keep your childish comments for yourself. Your graph does not explain me anything. i am talking about devices, which i own and have some experience. 

 

I think you misunderstand his link then.  Its showing why the 601 is unsuitable in this situation.  It's output impedance is far too high to drive those IEMs correctly, thus he should absolutely not consider it.  

post #30 of 47
Thread Starter 

Thank you Nick, actually I understand more or less what you're trying to say, I've been reading a few things on the subject of impedance and even if I'll make a bad choice about my new dap, if nothing else I'll have learnt quite a bit about audio, which is always good.

And going through google I stumbled upon this thread on another website which I think our very own skamp started! If you don't want to go through it, it's just a series of tests on the ipod with different configurations and from the headphone out and the LOD out. Unfortunately I wasn't able to open most of the results but from what I've got, the ipod has a much flatter frequency response if powered through a low impedance amp through LOD (not sure I'm using all the terms right) than it has through the headphones out. Can skamp or someone else can confirm this is correct?

Because, as I look at other solutions, I somehow can't let go of the extremely convenient 160 gb storage space plus on the go playlist and eq possibilities of rockbox and decent battery. I'm afraid even the sansa with a big sd card would be hard to navigate through with that small screen. The only other daps that are not too expensive and provide me with more or less similar possibilities as the ipod would be cowons but I'm not sure they'd work well with my iems (anyone can confirm or deny that?).

Anyway, if what I've understood is correct then I might try just using a low impedance amp. I already own the fiio e6, which should have a low impedance of 0.5, but of course that amp goes through the headphone out so it wouldn't make much difference in sound (and in fact I can't detect any). If i tried it with an adapter like this one would it work? Because that would be just 10€ to get and if i find there is any improvement I could then decide to move on to a better amp too.

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