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JDS Labs C5/C5D (pg96) portable amp/amp+DAC appreciation + discussion thread - Page 25

post #361 of 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusamars View Post

I am curious to hear them paired with my Grado PS500. Need to go for a trip to vancouver and test it in person if its available. however I have few questions:when you guys turn the bass boost on will it affect the mids or highs somehow or its totally transparent? and did anyone try them with these or other grados? whats your opinion on the bass impact? I really like the PS500 sound BUT wished it had more bass out of my iPad and its kinda bugging me when I play techno or anything electronic. thanks

The bass boost to me sounds like a wide-band bass boost, so even though the bass boost is at 80 Hz, I can hear more rumble with sub-bass and more lower-mids, so in a sense it does affect the mids a little. It definitely isn't totally transparent, and I don't think a +6.5 dB boost would be. The wide-band bass boost is the kind of rumble "theater" effect I mentioned earlier. It doesn't have the clean bass impact I would have preferred, where the bass boost is a narrower band, but it does increase the bass impact, yes. In this sense, the bass boost doesn't sound clean per se, but it's strangely addicting to me, honestly. Maybe it's because I tend to listen to music at low volume levels, and at that point the bass is often drowned out first (equal loudness contours).

 


As for how my rig is "bundled", I'm just using the rubber feet on the bottom of the C5 to protect my iPhone from being scratched. The rig doesn't move enough in my pocket to worry about it too much.

 


I mentioned this in the V-MODA M-100 thread but I finally got a LOD for my iPhone, and it does make a difference to me. While double amping, the music sounded a little better in terms of the midrange being more forward and the soundstage sounding a bit wider, but with the LOD the music just has another level of clarity. The M-100's sound really good with an iPhone 4S (256 kbps VBR MP3) and the C5 with the FiiO L3. The midrange is brought forward a little, treble smoothed out more so it's not as fatiguing for louder volume levels, bass impact is cleaner, there is the sense of a wider soundstage, and the instruments have more air between them; the sound seems comparable to an O2 using the L3 but with slightly less instrument separation, a bit narrower soundstage, and a slightly more forward midrange.

 

 

With the bass boost on, you get a pretty substantial amount of bass. I think it'll satisfy the needs of a basshead for bass rumble, or for road warriors who want a little more oomph in the bass region with the extra outside noise.

 


Also, a bit off-topic, but why is it that when I use the FiiO L3 LOD with the Objective 2, the volume I get out of the O2 is EXTREMELY loud, as in I have to turn the volume knob nearly all the way down to get to a more listenable volume level for me (yes this is in the channel imbalance region).

 

On the other hand, when I plug-in the C5, I can listen to my music at much more reasonable volume level. Is it due to the power output differences? How does the gain factor into this? The O2 has a gain of 1.0, whereas the C5 is 2.3.

 

Headphone of choice for this comparison was the V-MODA M-100, a fairly sensitive 32 Ω headphone.


Edited by miceblue - 2/28/13 at 10:44pm
post #362 of 2657
With an LOD, you're bypassing the iPhones volume control, so the source volume is set, and all volume controlled via the amp.
post #363 of 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

The bass boost to me sounds like a wide-band bass boost, so even though the bass boost is at 80 Hz, I can hear more rumble with sub-bass and more lower-mids, so in a sense it does affect the mids a little. It definitely isn't totally transparent, and I don't think a +6.5 dB boost would be. The wide-band bass boost is the kind of rumble "theater" effect I mentioned earlier. It doesn't have the clean bass impact I would have preferred, where the bass boost is a narrower band, but it does increase the bass impact, yes. In this sense, the bass boost doesn't sound clean per se, but it's strangely addicting to me, honestly. Maybe it's because I tend to listen to music at low volume levels, and at that point the bass is often drowned out first (equal loudness contours).

 


As for how my rig is "bundled", I'm just using the rubber feet on the bottom of the C5 to protect my iPhone from being scratched. The rig doesn't move enough in my pocket to worry about it too much.

 


I mentioned this in the V-MODA M-100 thread but I finally got a LOD for my iPhone, and it does make a difference to me. While double amping, the music sounded a little better in terms of the midrange being more forward and the soundstage sounding a bit wider, but with the LOD the music just has another level of clarity. The M-100's sound really good with an iPhone 4S (256 kbps VBR MP3) and the C5 with the FiiO L3. The midrange is brought forward a little, treble smoothed out more so it's not as fatiguing for louder volume levels, bass impact is cleaner, there is the sense of a wider soundstage, and the instruments have more air between them; the sound seems comparable to an O2 using the L3 but with slightly less instrument separation, a bit narrower soundstage, and a slightly more forward midrange.

 

 

With the bass boost on, you get a pretty substantial amount of bass. I think it'll satisfy the needs of a basshead for bass rumble, or for road warriors who want a little more oomph in the bass region with the extra outside noise.

 


Also, a bit off-topic, but why is it that when I use the FiiO L3 LOD with the Objective 2, the volume I get out of the O2 is EXTREMELY loud, as in I have to turn the volume knob nearly all the way down to get to a more listenable volume level for me (yes this is in the channel imbalance region).

 

On the other hand, when I plug-in the C5, I can listen to my music at much more reasonable volume level. Is it due to the power output differences? How does the gain factor into this? The O2 has a gain of 1.0, whereas the C5 is 2.3.

 

Headphone of choice for this comparison was the V-MODA M-100, a fairly sensitive 32 Ω headphone.

does this also happen when you try double amping? if your O2 already has a lower gain than the C5,  then it must be the way the amps are handling the input current or voltage

post #364 of 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by juntom10 View Post

Just received C5.

 

It is smaller than i thought!

 

So far I really like it!

 

Here are some pics.

 

 

 

 

Looks great!  How is the sound of it?

 

What about the cosmetic condition of it? Be picky cause I am.  I got the Apex Glacier and didn't feel the cosmetic condition I got mine was worthy of a $495(at this price I should be picky) price tag.  That being said Todd is a very nice man and has treated me well.

post #365 of 2657

Any1 have seen any RMAA measurement (or can do it themselves?) with bass boost on yet? I'd be curious to see how the curve of the bass boost looks like. :P

 

I actually like the idea about 80Hz centered bass, well ideally for the music I listen to I'd say ~65Hz had been ideal but I concider 80Hz to be quite the border where you could split subbass and midbass apart and from my experience testing lots of bassy headphones, checking their graphs, EQ'd etc; 80Hz peaked bass brings the ideal impact, you want equally much midbass as subbass if you want the biggest possible impact in the bass. I actually prefer the bass curve to have a peak and not go linearly down with the same amount bass to say below 30Hz or whatever, this just muddens up the bass response due to those lower frequencies needing so much more power and low frequencies are also slow. If you like punchy bass, a slight roll-off down deep is actually welcome and equally it should start to roll off somewhere between 150-200Hz in the upper-end to avoid midrange bleed/smoothing out of midrange details.

 

So +6.5dB and peaked around 80Hz, is this info accurate at least?


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 3/1/13 at 12:18am
post #366 of 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

Any1 have seen any RMAA measurement (or can do it themselves?) with bass boost on yet? I'd be curious to see how the curve of the bass boost looks like. :P

 

I actually like the idea about 80Hz centered bass, well ideally for the music I listen to I'd say ~65Hz had been ideal but I concider 80Hz to be quite the border where you could split subbass and midbass apart and from my experience testing lots of bassy headphones, checking their graphs, EQ'd etc; 80Hz peaked bass brings the ideal impact, you want equally much midbass as subbass if you want the biggest possible impact in the bass. I actually prefer the bass curve to have a peak and not go linearly down with the same amount bass to say below 30Hz or whatever, this just muddens up the bass response due to those lower frequencies needing so much more power and low frequencies are also slow. If you like punchy bass, a slight roll-off down deep is actually welcome and equally it should start to roll off somewhere between 150-200Hz in the upper-end to avoid midrange bleed/smoothing out of midrange details.

 

So +6.5dB and peaked around 80Hz, is this info accurate at least?

From JDS Lab's C5 blogpost:

Quote:
 
C5 Frequency Response (Bass boost): +6.5dB @ 80Hz

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamijoIsMyHero View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The bass boost to me sounds like a wide-band bass boost, so even though the bass boost is at 80 Hz, I can hear more rumble with sub-bass and more lower-mids, so in a sense it does affect the mids a little. It definitely isn't totally transparent, and I don't think a +6.5 dB boost would be. The wide-band bass boost is the kind of rumble "theater" effect I mentioned earlier. It doesn't have the clean bass impact I would have preferred, where the bass boost is a narrower band, but it does increase the bass impact, yes. In this sense, the bass boost doesn't sound clean per se, but it's strangely addicting to me, honestly. Maybe it's because I tend to listen to music at low volume levels, and at that point the bass is often drowned out first (equal loudness contours).

 


As for how my rig is "bundled", I'm just using the rubber feet on the bottom of the C5 to protect my iPhone from being scratched. The rig doesn't move enough in my pocket to worry about it too much.

 


I mentioned this in the V-MODA M-100 thread but I finally got a LOD for my iPhone, and it does make a difference to me. While double amping, the music sounded a little better in terms of the midrange being more forward and the soundstage sounding a bit wider, but with the LOD the music just has another level of clarity. The M-100's sound really good with an iPhone 4S (256 kbps VBR MP3) and the C5 with the FiiO L3. The midrange is brought forward a little, treble smoothed out more so it's not as fatiguing for louder volume levels, bass impact is cleaner, there is the sense of a wider soundstage, and the instruments have more air between them; the sound seems comparable to an O2 using the L3 but with slightly less instrument separation, a bit narrower soundstage, and a slightly more forward midrange.

 

 

With the bass boost on, you get a pretty substantial amount of bass. I think it'll satisfy the needs of a basshead for bass rumble, or for road warriors who want a little more oomph in the bass region with the extra outside noise.

 


Also, a bit off-topic, but why is it that when I use the FiiO L3 LOD with the Objective 2, the volume I get out of the O2 is EXTREMELY loud, as in I have to turn the volume knob nearly all the way down to get to a more listenable volume level for me (yes this is in the channel imbalance region).

 

On the other hand, when I plug-in the C5, I can listen to my music at much more reasonable volume level. Is it due to the power output differences? How does the gain factor into this? The O2 has a gain of 1.0, whereas the C5 is 2.3.

 

Headphone of choice for this comparison was the V-MODA M-100, a fairly sensitive 32 Ω headphone.

 

 

does this also happen when you try double amping? if your O2 already has a lower gain than the C5,  then it must be the way the amps are handling the input current or voltage

With my initial testing, no. But then I realised that I have a volume cap on the iPhone at ~40% from the maximum. Without the volume cap, and the iPhone's volume on maximum, I get the same effect.

Now that I'm listening to the O2 with the iPhone on max volume, I guess the volume level is actually quieter than the C5 at the lowest settings. My original observation was with the potentiometer at around the 8 o'clock position, which is after the channel imbalance region, and explains why I was hearing my music really loud. In the channel imbalance region of the O2, it does indeed reach a lower volume level at 1.0x gain versus the minimum volume level with the 2.3x gain of the C5. Sorry for the false alarm.

 

It looks like the C5's digital volume potentiometer saves the day with channel imbalance!


Edited by miceblue - 3/1/13 at 12:37am
post #367 of 2657

Finally!!!! Got my hands on the C5. I'll leave the impressions to the others as I suck at it.

 

Anyway I have something special planned for the C5 ever since I saw the C5 board and it's case.

Below is a topview of my unit.

 

 

Notice the wordings below the JDSlabs and the red thingy below the C5.

What might it be...you ask.....well some might know it.

For those that don't, Well the red thingy is a the called UD100, The smallest DAC that I know of that uses the

ESS Sabre ES9023 chip.Go here if you want to know more about it.

 

Well what has the wordings "Sabre32 DAC Version" and the UD100 has got to do with anything?

Since the C5 is considered similar sounding to the O2 as the UD100 to the ODAC(don't quote me on this) and

if your trying to guess and thinking wouldn't it be great if you could stuff a DAC unit into the C5

than that is exactly what I've done! while still maitaining the functionality of the C5 as a stand alone amp!

 

Ok not going to bore you with the all the details....I'll just let the pics do the talking.

 

 

Sizing it up.

 

The jack of the UD-100 removed due to height issue and also open/bare contacts.

 

 

 

The output from UD100 soldered to the input of the C5 and also the OTG cable soldered on the UD100 that is going to my S3.

The UD100 is held by double-side tape.A dummy jack is plugged(no left channel if left unplug due to the switching design of the input jack.

 

Opening on the top front plate to allow for the OTG cable through.

 

All assemble up and ready to use.

 

 

 

 

Finally getting to enjoy the C5 after all that work.

 

The modded C5 still usable as an amp.

 

PS: Exuse me for some of the picture quality..tired after all that work.

post #368 of 2657

Wow! Great mod! Congratulations, rckyosho! Maybe you'll give JDS Labs some new ideas... tongue.gif biggrin.gif

post #369 of 2657

Yea, definitely very crafty.. nice mod! This would be very interesting if JDSLabs, could implement a DAC/AMP version. Congrats, I bet in sounds great!

post #370 of 2657
Thanks guys.And after all that work it does sound great to my ears and seems better than the apex glacier to me although I have not really done a proper comparison volume match and all.

And yeah hopefully JDSLabs offer one with the ODAC built in...that'll be great!
post #371 of 2657

You're seriously making me second-guess my C421...

 

Can anyone say how the C5 compares to the C421? I'm sure a lot of folks have had time to burn their C5's in.

post #372 of 2657
Thanks for the explanation miceblue.
post #373 of 2657

I thought by now many have received the C5's. Where are the initial impressions? wink_face.gif

post #374 of 2657

I'm going through amp withdrawal and I don't even own it yet ;) ;)

post #375 of 2657

@rckyosho

 

Nice job!

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