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JDS Labs C5/C5D (pg96) portable amp/amp+DAC appreciation + discussion thread - Page 167

post #2491 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkLed View Post
 

Semantics, and irrelevant to the issue. Mixing materials of different harnesses in a manner where friction is a factor is, well to be blunt, amateur. Amber has a harness similar to nylon. The rubber coating over the "Glass fiber reinforced polyamide" hardness much less. Plain and simple. 

 

FYI, I design transformer substations not micro switches. If a customer complains about a control component, I scrap it and get a better one. 

 

They would still be saving money. This ones basic math. Switch A costs 5$ switch B costs 10$. X= B+B = 20$, Y = B+A = 15$. X > Y.

 

 

 

Single part cost of an NKK G23AV: $7.70/ea

Single part cost of the rear, metal power switch: $2.90/ea

 

We continue to use the relatively expensive NKK brand because they're appreciated. We've evaluated a long list of alternative switches; cost is not part of the decision process. We maintain records of all customer issues, and your broken toggle is an isolated event covered by our 2-year warranty. Unless unreported, no other C5 or C5D switches have been damaged. That said, I've worked as an electrical engineer in high reliability industrial environments and understand your concern. The NKK switches meet long-term reliability expectations and outlast the product warranty (NKK G22AV was used in our c421 amp). If there's demand for a Toughbook style amp/DAC, we'll build one. Or have a look at Objective2.

 

Machining: Our machinists inspect each batch of endplates as soon as they're removed from our Haas CNC for a post-machining cleanse. As a secondary measure of protection, we use custom trays in the engraving process which physically cannot accept misshaped parts. And to ensure maximum quality, we've recently required our head of production to inspect each batch of machined parts again after engraving. Bad parts are rejected at each inspection point and are sent to a recycling bin. Only acceptable parts make it to our assembly department.

 

Engraving: Regardless of the application method, we've found that silkscreen and engraving processes onto silver endplates can wear off after significant physical contact (usually measured in years). Laser engraving onto black anodized aluminum is far more robust since it physically alters the oxide layer and cannot be removed. If customers were unhappy, we'd discontinue silver endplates. If you have any concern about long-term artwork wear, black is a better choice.

 

 

@PinkLed: I'm sorry C5 has mechanically disappointed you. All products should match the photos at JDSLabs.com, and outlast their 2-year warranty. We'll be glad to refund the amp or replace the entire unit. Let us know what you prefer.

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post #2492 of 2905

@jseaber, Thank you for your responses and involvement with the hi-fi community. Don't misunderstand me, I think the product is by and large great, and I will be looking to take full advantage of the warranty. I strongly believe in giving the manufacture another chance, because believe me I've had plenty of instances where I was on the receiving end of complaints.  

post #2493 of 2905
Just wanted to let you know that it makes me really happy that my JDS O2 comes from the same manufacturing environment. That's a machine shop to be proud of.
post #2494 of 2905
I have my C5D hooked into my iPad with a Lightening connector. But I have to toggle the C5D on and off several times before the iPad recognizes the C5D. Does anyone else have this problem? Is this a problem with the iPad, or the DAC on the C5D not initializing properly? Maybe both?
post #2495 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

I have my C5D hooked into my iPad with a Lightening connector. But I have to toggle the C5D on and off several times before the iPad recognizes the C5D. Does anyone else have this problem? Is this a problem with the iPad, or the DAC on the C5D not initializing properly? Maybe both?
I didn't have that issue. Are you in an app when you connect it of anything? Just an idea, maybe something is affecting the ipad audio control? Have you fully shut down your ipod lately? Maybe a reboot will clear up any issues?
post #2496 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

I didn't have that issue. Are you in an app when you connect it of anything? Just an idea, maybe something is affecting the ipad audio control? Have you fully shut down your ipod lately? Maybe a reboot will clear up any issues?

This happens both in the iPad music app and the remote J River app. I have tried rebooting only once which did not fix the problem. I can retry the reboot next time I encounter this problem.
post #2497 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

I didn't have that issue. Are you in an app when you connect it of anything? Just an idea, maybe something is affecting the ipad audio control? Have you fully shut down your ipod lately? Maybe a reboot will clear up any issues?

This happens both in the iPad music app and the remote J River app. I have tried rebooting only once which did not fix the problem. I can retry the reboot next time I encounter this problem.
This may not be related at all, but i know you need to have all audio stopped when turning on the c5. I wonder if something similar is happening with the digital connection with the c5d? Even if nothing is playing, maybe something is happening on the ipad at the time?

I would close all apps open the one you want and test it a bunch of times. If it happens, maybe try waiting a few seconds after pausing any audio and try it again. Essentially try and see if you can figure out a way to consistently reproduce the issue. Then maybe that would indicate what the cause is to us or john?
post #2498 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


This may not be related at all, but i know you need to have all audio stopped when turning on the c5. I wonder if something similar is happening with the digital connection with the c5d? Even if nothing is playing, maybe something is happening on the ipad at the time?

I would close all apps open the one you want and test it a bunch of times. If it happens, maybe try waiting a few seconds after pausing any audio and try it again. Essentially try and see if you can figure out a way to consistently reproduce the issue. Then maybe that would indicate what the cause is to us or john?

 

The problem has been happening all the time since my purchase of the device. Sometimes a cable unplug and replug does the trick. Sometimes going out and then into the app helps. Sometimes toggling the C5D off and on can work too. But I have never been able to reliably have it work, where the music would come through the C5D to the headphones instead of the speaker on the iPad.

 

EDIT: This is not a problem with the ODAC/O2, even though it is a bit idiosyncratic. Sometimes the iPad does not provide power to the USB hub I am testing with. But when iPad supplies power, which is almost all the time, I can plug it into the ODAC part and in a few moments it works reliably. I am using the same USB cable in both cases.


Edited by r010159 - 5/11/14 at 6:24pm
post #2499 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

This may not be related at all, but i know you need to have all audio stopped when turning on the c5. I wonder if something similar is happening with the digital connection with the c5d? Even if nothing is playing, maybe something is happening on the ipad at the time?


I would close all apps open the one you want and test it a bunch of times. If it happens, maybe try waiting a few seconds after pausing any audio and try it again. Essentially try and see if you can figure out a way to consistently reproduce the issue. Then maybe that would indicate what the cause is to us or john?

The problem has been happening all the time since my purchase of the device. Sometimes a cable unplug and replug does the trick. Sometimes going out and then into the app helps. Sometimes toggling the C5D off and on can work too. But I have never been able to reliably have it work, where the music would come through the C5D to the headphones instead of the speaker on the iPad.

EDIT: This is not a problem with the ODAC/O2, even though it is a bit idiosyncratic. Sometimes the iPad does not provide power to the USB hub I am testing with. But when iPad supplies power, which is almost all the time, I can plug it into the ODAC part and in a few moments it works reliably. I am using the same USB cable in both cases.
So are you just connecting the ipad to the c5d with a cck and usb cable right? You're not using a hub somehow between them are you? That could definitely be a possible problem. Matbe i read that wrong though?
post #2500 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


So are you just connecting the ipad to the c5d with a cck and usb cable right? You're not using a hub somehow between them are you? That could definitely be a possible problem. Matbe i read that wrong though?

 

I have started trying to use the setup that has worked, which is a CCK direct without the USB hub. Then I tried with the hub which also has worked in the past. Still not working. I try this setup with the ODAC and same USB cable and CCK and it works every time.

post #2501 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


So are you just connecting the ipad to the c5d with a cck and usb cable right? You're not using a hub somehow between them are you? That could definitely be a possible problem. Matbe i read that wrong though?

 

I have started trying to use the setup that has worked, which is a CCK direct without the USB hub. Then I tried with the hub which also has worked in the past. Still not working. I try this setup with the ODAC and same USB cable and CCK and it works every time.

 

I'm guessing the hub is the problem. It could be changing the data or power somehow? I'm not sure, I'm not an expert on usb electronic functionality, but I am a server administrator/computer technician. I've seen many times where a usb hub doesn't provide sufficient power for something and therefore doesn't work with that device. I've also seen issues where noise on the signal causes data errors or something similar because the hub didn't keep the signal clean or something of the sort. Again, not exactly sure on the technical details, but needless to say, some devices don't work with usb hubs or at least "certain" usb hubs.

 

Maybe john can chime in? I assume a hub of decent quality and specifications would work o.k., but I'm not sure. It sounds like that might be your issue though?

post #2502 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I'm guessing the hub is the problem. It could be changing the data or power somehow? I'm not sure, I'm not an expert on usb electronic functionality, but I am a server administrator/computer technician. I've seen many times where a usb hub doesn't provide sufficient power for something and therefore doesn't work with that device. I've also seen issues where noise on the signal causes data errors or something similar because the hub didn't keep the signal clean or something of the sort. Again, not exactly sure on the technical details, but needless to say, some devices don't work with usb hubs or at least "certain" usb hubs.

 

Maybe john can chime in? I assume a hub of decent quality and specifications would work o.k., but I'm not sure. It sounds like that might be your issue though?

 

This suggests a bizarre mechanical problem with the iPad or cables (i.e., not a C5D issue, despite the ODAC report). Do you have another iPad or iPhone you can try?

 

Digital audio output from an iDevice works identically to OS X, Windows, etc: The operating system detects the USB device and begins transmitting digital audio data. To C5D, there's no difference whether the audio source is a phone, tablet, or computer. It's either receiving data or it is not. Thus, when C5D works perfectly on a computer, it should also work perfectly on a supported tablet or phone. More info here: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838

 

Two or three users since C5D's release have reported unexpected results. In all three cases, it was caused by a damaged Lightning jack on the iPad or iPhone (cable made power contact, but not digital contact). In each case, C5D of course tested normally at JDS Labs and not for the customer.

 

@r010159: You're welcome to send your C5D in again. We'll re-test for normal behavior under Win7, OS X, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5S, and latest gen iPad. Please note the above first.


Edited by jseaber - 5/12/14 at 7:56am
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post #2503 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by jseaber View Post
 

 

This suggests a bizarre mechanical problem with the iPad or cables (i.e., not a C5D issue, despite the ODAC report). Do you have another iPad or iPhone you can try?

 

Digital audio output from an iDevice works identically to OS X, Windows, etc: The operating system detects the USB device and begins transmitting digital audio data. To C5D, there's no difference whether the audio source is a phone, tablet, or computer. It's either receiving data or it is not. Thus, when C5D works perfectly on a computer, it should also work perfectly on a supported tablet or phone. More info here: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838

 

Two or three users since C5D's release have reported unexpected results. In all three cases, it was caused by a damaged Lightning jack on the iPad or iPhone (cable made power contact, but not digital contact). In each case, C5D of course tested normally at JDS Labs and not for the customer.

 

@r010159: You're welcome to send your C5D in again. We'll re-test for normal behavior under Win7, OS X, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5S, and latest gen iPad. Please note the above first.

 

It is not the hub. The hub works with the O2/ODAC. So does the lightening adapter used as part of the chain of cables. The lightening adapter apparently also works without the hub. When I tested with the C5D hooked up to an iPhone through the hub it also did not work. This should eliminate everything but the C5D.  However, when I hooked up the iPhone to the C5D using a 30-pin CCK adapter, it reliably worked. So there is a problem with both the hub and the adapter. The hub does work with the Mac computer that I have, so apparently when the hub is powered by an iDevice, it does not work. This should not be a problem since the C5D does not get its power from the USB bus. No wonder this was confusing to me!

 

It looks like there is a problem with the new Lightening adapter which is an genuine Apple CCK adapter purchased from Amazon.  And it does work from time to time. It worked more often in the past than it has now. This is one of the rare instances of an intermittent problem turning out to be an adapter. So as this epic journey continues, I will order another one from Amazon. But the last purchase was from a third-party on Amazon. Perhaps it would be better if I purchased it locally from an Apple store? I think I will do this next.

 

EDIT: I came back to this afterwards to find the same problem again. When it does work, all I need to do is turn the C5D off then on and no music again.  By  only toggling the power button I can get it to work. This happens with a different USB cable, and with my iPhone this time which does not use the lightening adapter. But when I unplug the cable a few times, it can start to work.

 

Does this mean a USB controller not initializing properly when an iDevice is being used?

 

Bob Graham

 

[message to jseaber deleted]


Edited by r010159 - 5/12/14 at 3:25pm
post #2504 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jseaber View Post

 

This suggests a bizarre mechanical problem with the iPad or cables (i.e., not a C5D issue, despite the ODAC report). Do you have another iPad or iPhone you can try?

Digital audio output from an iDevice works identically to OS X, Windows, etc: The operating system detects the USB device and begins transmitting digital audio data. To C5D, there's no difference whether the audio source is a phone, tablet, or computer. It's either receiving data or it is not. Thus, when C5D works perfectly on a computer, it should also work perfectly on a supported tablet or phone. More info here: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838

Two or three users since C5D's release have reported unexpected results. In all three cases, it was caused by a damaged Lightning jack on the iPad or iPhone (cable made power contact, but not digital contact). In each case, C5D of course tested normally at JDS Labs and not for the customer.

@r010159: You're welcome to send your C5D in again. We'll re-test for normal behavior under Win7, OS X, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5S, and latest gen iPad. Please note the above first.

It is not the hub. The hub works with the O2/ODAC. So does the lightening adapter used as part of the chain of cables. The lightening adapter apparently also works without the hub. When I tested with the C5D hooked up to an iPhone through the hub it also did not work. This should eliminate everything but the C5D.  However, when I hooked up the iPhone to the C5D using a 30-pin CCK adapter, it reliably worked. So there is a problem with both the hub and the adapter. The hub does work with the Mac computer that I have, so apparently when the hub is powered by an iDevice, it does not work. This should not be a problem since the C5D does not get its power from the USB bus. No wonder this was confusing to me!

It looks like there is a problem with the new Lightening adapter which is an genuine Apple CCK adapter purchased from Amazon.  And it does work from time to time. It worked more often in the past than it has now. This is one of the rare instances of an intermittent problem turning out to be an adapter. So as this epic journey continues, I will order another one from Amazon. But the last purchase was from a third-party on Amazon. Perhaps it would be better if I purchased it locally from an Apple store? I think I will do this next.

EDIT: I came back to this afterwards to find the same problem again. When it does work, all I need to do is turn the C5D off then on and no music again.  By  only toggling the power button I can get it to work. This happens with a different USB cable, and with my iPhone this time which does not use the lightening adapter. But when I unplug the cable a few times, it can start to work.

Does this mean a USB controller not initializing properly when an iDevice is being used?

Bob Graham

[message to jseaber deleted]
Just because the hub works with the odac does not mean it will work with every other device. It may not be the hub, but the fact tgat it works with the odac doesn't prove anything. In fact, if i'm not mistaken you're saying the c5d works when you're not using the hub. That more likely rules out the c5d as a problem if that were the case.

Not to be a pain, but could you clearly list all of the exact setups in which it doesn't work as well as the setups in which it does work? Maybe we can figure it out? Maybe it is the adapter, but i'd like to go over all the situations if it isn't too much bother...

John might have other clues as well, but he seems to also think it isn't the c5d. However he would test it for you if you want to be sure. But i'm guessing it's the hub or adapter personally..
post #2505 of 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Just because the hub works with the odac does not mean it will work with every other device. It may not be the hub, but the fact tgat it works with the odac doesn't prove anything. In fact, if i'm not mistaken you're saying the c5d works when you're not using the hub. That more likely rules out the c5d as a problem if that were the case.

Not to be a pain, but could you clearly list all of the exact setups in which it doesn't work as well as the setups in which it does work? Maybe we can figure it out? Maybe it is the adapter, but i'd like to go over all the situations if it isn't too much bother...

John might have other clues as well, but he seems to also think it isn't the c5d. However he would test it for you if you want to be sure. But i'm guessing it's the hub or adapter personally..

 

I had this same problem well before I used this hub. But I will not use the hub this time.  In order to simplify this, I am using my iPhone 4S with its  30-pin CCK through the USB cable I have been using with the ODAC for months, out to the C5D instead of the ODAC. I am not using the original USB cable, Lightning CCK, or the iPad. This setup does not work. So all I do is turn the C5D on and off and on and off. Sometimes audio comes through to my headphones, but most of the time it does not and plays from the phone. I have not changed or done a thing during this test other than toggle the power switch. I then substitute the iPhone and its 30-pin CCK with an  iPad and its Lightning CCK . I have the same problem that is intermittently solved in the same way, the toggling of the  power switch several or more times.  I then use the C5D as a DAC/amp for my Mac mini. In this case it works several times in a row. I am listening to it as I write this. The only difference is I am not using either CCKs, but I am using the same USB cable. 

 

Bob Graham

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