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HD800 and LCD-2 rev2, or LCD-3 alone - Page 3

post #31 of 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

I found the O2 to drive the HD800's just fine on the 6.5x gain setting with a strong enough power supply. If you leave it on the low gain setting it will sound thin and lack bass, but this is not the case when enabling the additional power (the 800 still won't have the bass extension of the LCD-2, but it's good nonetheless). I compared it with a ~$1k burson and there was no major difference at all. The only upgrade I would say is worthwhile at this point is probably to a phonitor, and that's mostly because of its crossfeed circuit...

Anyways, I haven't tried the LCD-3, but I have tried the LCD-2, and I can easily say the HD800 is a big step up in terms of imaging/soundstage/depth, and I really can't see any other non-electrostat phone beating it in that regard right now. And yes, the sound signature is very much neutral (though maybe a tad bit hyped in the 6k-10khz area, which can be fixed by modding), it sounds a lot like listening to real studio monitors. However, I wouldn't recommend them for enjoyable listening unless you really want that dry studio monitor sound, cause despite its impressive technical merits, the audeze is probably more 'enjoyable'. The HD800 is certainly more comfortable though, that's for sure...

 

Aah, I am interested in Phonitor to be honest due to the crossfeed... Have you compared it to some software implementation like Redline monitor or Jriver's crossfeed?

 

So you do not find the soundstaging and imaging of HD800 to be fun for just enjoying the music? Maybe it seems like a stupid question but it isn't as I want something with more holographic imaging than LCD-2... But it's true that I love the "heavy" sound of LCD-2 especially with metal.

post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

Aah, I am interested in Phonitor to be honest due to the crossfeed... Have you compared it to some software implementation like Redline monitor or Jriver's crossfeed?

So you do not find the soundstaging and imaging of HD800 to be fun for just enjoying the music? Maybe it seems like a stupid question but it isn't as I want something with more holographic imaging than LCD-2... But it's true that I love the "heavy" sound of LCD-2 especially with metal.

Oh it is. The soundstage is definitely addicting, though you might not notice it until switching back to other headphones. And they work well with metal, especially with well produced metal albums like Metallica's black album or S&M, Black metal can be a stretch though (well, aside from Dimmu Borgir). Now the 'heaviness' part is a bit more subjective; personally, the HD800 doesn't sound 'cold' or 'thin' to my ears, but I do believe the LCD-2 could be considered as 'heavier'. I do find the HD800 'heavier' than the hifimans I've tried though, if that's any consolation. It is largely dependent on the recording though.

Anyways, I haven't tried them with the phonitor yet personally, but I have tried them with redline monitor and tb isone, and they both work well. I usually stick with isone cause its htrf function makes it a lot more convincing. Though honestly, I think I like the 800 on its own better, cause it already has a pretty darn convincing open soundstage to begin with, making the crossfeed less of a big deal.
Edited by oblique63 - 1/21/13 at 12:58pm
post #33 of 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post


Oh it is. The soundstage is definitely addicting, though you might not notice it until switching back to other headphones. And they work well with metal, especially with well produced metal albums like Metallica's black album or S&M, Black metal can be a stretch though (well, aside from Dimmu Borgir). Now the 'heaviness' part is a bit more subjective; personally, the HD800 doesn't sound 'cold' or 'thin' to my ears, but I do believe the LCD-2 could be considered as 'heavier'. I do find the HD800 'heavier' than the hifimans I've tried though, if that's any consolation. It is largely dependent on the recording though.

Anyways, I haven't tried them with the phonitor yet personally, but I have tried them with redline monitor and tb isone, and they both work well. I usually stick with isone cause its htrf function makes it a lot more convincing. Though honestly, I think I like the 800 on its own better, cause it already has a pretty darn convincing open soundstage to begin with, making the crossfeed less of a big deal.

 

That's interesting... I use TB Isone as well, it's great! So you think that HD800 do not benefit from using TB Isone much? Or does the TB Isone even "ruin" the soundstage of HD800? I use this plugin primarily in order to add depth to my listening and it works very well...

 

I am really considering to try the HD800... I am a bit worried about the treble being too much pronounced though.

 

"The soundstage is definitely addicting, though you might not notice it until switching back to other headphones." - What do you mean by this?

post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

That's interesting... I use TB Isone as well, it's great! So you think that HD800 do not benefit from using TB Isone much? Or does the TB Isone even "ruin" the soundstage of HD800? I use this plugin primarily in order to add depth to my listening and it works very well...

 

I am really considering to try the HD800... I am a bit worried about the treble being too much pronounced though.

 

"The soundstage is definitely addicting, though you might not notice it until switching back to other headphones." - What do you mean by this?

 

I mean that the headphones sort of fade away after a while because it's easy to get accustomed to their big sound, so unless you're fully engaged 100% into what you're listening to, you kinda forget how good it sounds cause it just seems 'right' (the same applies to most high end phones I'm sure, but I'm talking specifically about the soundstage here). Thus you really appreciate it a lot more after going back to another headphone.

As for the treble, it's really not that bad at all. Certainly brighter than the LCD-2 (or at least the rev. 1 I listened to), but I wouldn't go so far as to call the HD800's objectively 'bright'; just a brighter representation of neutral.  However, make sure to break them in with pink noise for about ~30hrs first, cause the treble is definitely piercing straight out of the box (after first opening them up and trying them I didn't listen to them again for a solid 2 days while burning in, so I can assure that it wasn't just me getting used to their sound). And again, there's a mod out there to tame the treble even more. I EQ'd them for a bit to sort of get an idea of what the mod would do, and they certainly sound great like that as well; again, just a different side of neutral IMO.

And about the crossfeed... I do think it adds a bit of depth, but at the expense of the 800's super articulate imaging/instrument-placement and bass response. I wouldn't say it's detrimental overall, but I can't really say it's 'better' either. I think the width, depth, and height are all really good on the HD800 already, so bringing in the crossfeed just feels like giving them a different flavor of sorts rather than improving anything.

post #35 of 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

 

I mean that the headphones sort of fade away after a while because it's easy to get accustomed to their big sound, so unless you're fully engaged 100% into what you're listening to, you kinda forget how good it sounds cause it just seems 'right' (the same applies to most high end phones I'm sure, but I'm talking specifically about the soundstage here). Thus you really appreciate it a lot more after going back to another headphone.

As for the treble, it's really not that bad at all. Certainly brighter than the LCD-2 (or at least the rev. 1 I listened to), but I wouldn't go so far as to call the HD800's objectively 'bright'; just a brighter representation of neutral.  However, make sure to break them in with pink noise for about ~30hrs first, cause the treble is definitely piercing straight out of the box (after first opening them up and trying them I didn't listen to them again for a solid 2 days while burning in, so I can assure that it wasn't just me getting used to their sound). And again, there's a mod out there to tame the treble even more. I EQ'd them for a bit to sort of get an idea of what the mod would do, and they certainly sound great like that as well; again, just a different side of neutral IMO.

And about the crossfeed... I do think it adds a bit of depth, but at the expense of the 800's super articulate imaging/instrument-placement and bass response. I wouldn't say it's detrimental overall, but I can't really say it's 'better' either. I think the width, depth, and height are all really good on the HD800 already, so bringing in the crossfeed just feels like giving them a different flavor of sorts rather than improving anything.

 

Thanks very much for in-depth explanation, really... It helps very much!

 

Do you find HD800 to be totally unlistenable with worse-recorded music like metal? I still have LCD-2 for that but wonder whether I could somehow enjoy metal with HD800 even though it's a super-revealing headphone...

post #36 of 58

Not really. I've found it totally listenable with everything I've thrown at it thus far. Compression is very noticeable and all that, but I still listen to a ton of metal with them. However, you should probably take what I say with a grain of salt cause I'm not a fan of 'forgiving' headphones, thus I have a pretty high tolerance for listening to poor recordings in high detail. I want to listen to the recordings as they were intended, so if the recording happens to be crap, the recording is crap, and I can accept that without preventing me from enjoying the music. I'm almost positive I'm in the minority here, so like I said, take it with a grain of salt. Cause after all that, there's still no way I can say that you'll prefer the HD800 over the LCD-3 or vise-versa.

post #37 of 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

Not really. I've found it totally listenable with everything I've thrown at it thus far. Compression is very noticeable and all that, but I still listen to a ton of metal with them. However, you should probably take what I say with a grain of salt cause I'm not a fan of 'forgiving' headphones, thus I have a pretty high tolerance for listening to poor recordings in high detail. I want to listen to the recordings as they were intended, so if the recording happens to be crap, the recording is crap, and I can accept that without preventing me from enjoying the music. I'm almost positive I'm in the minority here, so like I said, take it with a grain of salt. Cause after all that, there's still no way I can say that you'll prefer the HD800 over the LCD-3 or vise-versa.

 

The only thing I am quite worried is that after listening to both headphones, I would tend to choose just one and sell the other... But to be honest, from what I have read so far, it seems much more reasonable to purchase HD800 than LCD-3 as it cost less (1200USD vs 2000+USD for me as I reside within EU) and offer better technical excellence. Another option is just to keep LCD-2 rev2 and forget, of course.


Edited by RustA - 1/21/13 at 3:03pm
post #38 of 58
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Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Another option is just to keep LCD-2 rev2 and forget, of course.

This would be the most reasonable option. But given that we're on head-fi, I'd say being reasonable isn't quite our strong-suit...


Edited by oblique63 - 1/21/13 at 3:14pm
post #39 of 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

This would be the most reasonable option. But given that we're on head-fi, I'd say being reasonable isn't quite our strong-suit...

 

I see you have a lot of headphones... How do you manage to use them all? o_O

post #40 of 58
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Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

I see you have a lot of headphones... How do you manage to use them all? o_O

Yeah, basically I just always go in with the intention of selling/returning every pair of phones I buy, and thus justify getting different ones that excel at similar things to compare and determine which one I like better. I'm still waiting for my D5000's lawton mods and a K267 to arrive for example, to compare which has the best bass (so far the D600 is winning, but I really don't like it's mids/highs). Interestingly, the HE-5LE is one of the few phones that I didn't plan to sell off when I got them, but after getting the HD800, there's just nothing I find they excel at in comparison... And I can't say I put equal time into all my phones, but I got into headphones in the first place because I do audio production work on the side, and I like having different 'lenses' through which to view a mix, so I keep a few around for that purpose. Ideally though, I just want to narrow it down to the best 3 or so cans I can find that will cover all the bases. It's quite possible that I'll just sell everything but the HD800 and go with an LCD-3 and TH900 to complement them in the end, but who knows. I do have an irrational attachment to my DT880's and HD600's cause they were my first >$100 phones, but I have a feeling I'll replace both with some Mad Dogs or a Paradox eventually, cause I want some closed cans for when I'm tracking my guitar parts... But again, reasoning well about these sorts of things isn't my strong-suit tongue.gif

post #41 of 58

As far as the HD800 goes, to answer your question about 3D imaging, I think it gives more of a "surrond" sound (still rather close to your head) than "width". Don't expect speaker like distance from the sound. Even if I consider the HD 800 amazing for imaging, the drivers are still at an inch from your ears, so don't expect miracles in that regard. Now, should you buy the LCD 3 or the HD 800 and keep your LCD 2? In my opinion, having 2 headphones with different sound signature is very enjoyable since you may only use one for a week (or a month) or so with some albums then switch back to the other pair for an other type of music etc. I never auditioned the LCD 2 (sad I know) but from what I've read, the HD 800 have a very different sound signature so I think you might get the best of both world by having both. Bass slam and fun factor on one side (LCD2) and extreme pin-point accuracy and neutrality on the other (HD800). Also, by switching, you will enjoy both pair more. From the HD 800 to the LCD 2, you will enjoy getting that "yummy" sound back and on the other way arround, you will enjoy the HD 800's qualities over the LCD 2 and so on. It's kinda like food. If you always eat spicy, you will get tired of it after a while and you won't have that same "wow factor" you had the first time you tasted something really spicy. By alternating between different type of food, you make sure you will get that same (or almost the same) impression every time you switch back to a certain type of food.


Just my 0.02$, hope it helps!

(Forgive my english)

post #42 of 58

I would go for lcd 3 since i can wear only one pair of headphones. yeah i like a higher utilization rate...

post #43 of 58

the koss pro 4AAAAAAAAAA is good with o2 and odac, as heavy as an lcd2, and cheaper than lcd3!

post #44 of 58

I vote for the LCD-3s + the HD800s biggrin.gif

post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

I vote for the LCD-3s + the HD800s biggrin.gif

Preferred solution!

 

Next best thing, I'd go just with the LCD-3s alone.

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