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HD800 and LCD-2 rev2, or LCD-3 alone - Page 2

post #16 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValentinHogea View Post


Yup!

 

And if you're ready to buy a almost 2000 USD headphone, you should consider the fact that there may be better amps out there than O2.

 

HD800 is a tricky beast to drive correctly. Driving it with a O2 will add you to the "No bass, harsh treble"-subcategory of ex-HD800-owners. Sure LCD-3 ain't that easy either, but LCD-3 will sound more like it should out of a O2.

 

Great! So please, could you elaborate a bit more on how do you like both headphones with this amp? Also, could you answer my questions from the first post about 3D rendering differences between both headphones, imaging, overall balance etc. I would appreciate it very much!

post #17 of 58

It was a short audition at a store (albeit, a quiet, well damped separate room).  So I was quick about my song selection-- went to some mumford and sons, tool, hans zimmer, etc.

 

The HD800 was cold for my liking, and I know a different amp will change that to some extent, but probably not enough that'll make me care for the HD800.    I'm used to HE-400 level of bass, and even that is a tad lacking in the lowest registers for me.

 

 

 

I personally can't recommend you a headphone because I don't know your taste in music and your experiences in headphones.  I'm thinking you might like LCD-3 the best.

 

 

And I wouldn't consider arguing over the amps instead of the headphones as being off topic.  If you were considering one of these 3, then considering the amp is almost just as important.


Edited by TMRaven - 1/21/13 at 8:53am
post #18 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by max pl View Post

i love how the op is asking for suggestions and then arguing everyone of them.

 

I am arguing because people are getting off topic... I have clearly stated my questions.

 

So once again: NO OTHER AMP, NO OTHER DAC, NO OTHER HEADPHONES from what is included in the first post! Thank you smily_headphones1.gif

post #19 of 58

If you insist to keep your current set-up then I think you just need to upgrade to LCD3.

 

HD800 will become a very nice complement beside your LCD2, but I worried you'll always grab your LCD2 everytime you want to hear music and let your HD800 just collect the dust.

 

Talk about high end headphones mean we talk about the set-up also, and HD800 is one of the most revealing dynamic headphone in the world right now.


Edited by TheMiddleSky - 1/21/13 at 8:55am
post #20 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

It was a short audition at a store (albeit, a quiet, well damped separate room).  So I was quick about my song selection-- went to some mumford and sons, tool, hans zimmer, etc.

 

The HD800 was cold for my liking, and I know a different amp will change that to some extent, but probably not enough that'll make me care for the HD800.    I'm used to HE-400 level of bass, and even that is a tad lacking in the lowest registers for me.

 

 

 

I personally can't recommend you a headphone because I don't know your taste in music and your experiences in headphones.  I'm thinking you might like LCD-3 the best.

 

Thanks, this was helpful... Yeah, I am quite worried about HD800 being too much cold. I am aware of that they are completely different from LCD-2 though.

 

Have you found any strong areas of HD800 during your short audition?

post #21 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMiddleSky View Post

If you insist to keep your current set-up then I think you just need to upgrade to LCD3.

 

HD800 will become a very nice complement beside your LCD2, but I worried you'll always grab your LCD2 everytime you want to hear music and let your HD800 just collect the dust.

 

Talk about high end headphones mean we talk about the set-up also, and HD800 is one of the most revealing dynamic headphone in the world right now.

 

Yes, I definitely do not want to change my DAC or amp to be honest...

 

But I though that the soundstage and imaging is extremely impressive on HD800, isn't it enjoyable with music? I know it's not a forgiving headphone...

post #22 of 58

I'm not that big of a follower of headphone 'imaging' or soundstaging.  It's either a closed feel or an open feel to me.  That said, the HD800's greatest strength to me was clean sound, and a really silent background during complex passages.  

post #23 of 58
Thread Starter 

Have a few questions to clarify better what I need to know:

 

1) How much better HD800 is in providing 3D soundstaging? Depth is the most important factor...

2) How much better HD800 is in instrument placement with pin-point accuracy?

3) How much more forgiving LCD-3 are?

4) Which headphone is the more balanced one, more neutral?

5) Is the bass of HD800 non-existent, or only not as full as with Audezes?

 

And of course: HD800 + LCD-2 rev2 (have the best from both worlds), or LCD-3 alone (all-in-one experience)?

post #24 of 58

If holographic pinpoint imaging is high on your priority list, then there possibly isn't a better headphone than the HD800, at any price. 

 

With that said, the HD800 is very revealing of upstream gear and less-than-ideal pairings (like the O2) will bring out its worst qualities. That is why amping must be taken into consideration when recommending the HD800 -- because it's very hard to recommend without knowing if your upstream gear will synergize well with it. I was once skeptical of how dramatic the differences were, until I went to a big meet and plugged my HD800 into literally a dozen different amps. 

 

With that said, I personally prefer the HD800 over the LCD3, irrespective of price. This seems like a no-brainer to me. 

post #25 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questhate View Post

If holographic pinpoint imaging is high on your priority list, then there possibly isn't a better headphone than the HD800, at any price. 

 

With that said, the HD800 is very revealing of upstream gear and less-than-ideal pairings (like the O2) will bring out its worst qualities. That is why amping must be taken into consideration when recommending the HD800 -- because it's very hard to recommend without knowing if your upstream gear will synergize well with it. I was once skeptical of how dramatic the differences were, until I went to a big meet and plugged my HD800 into literally a dozen different amps. 

 

With that said, I personally prefer the HD800 over the LCD3, irrespective of price. This seems like a no-brainer to me. 

 

Well, I really want to have a pair of headphones capable of impressive holographic imaging... It does not necessarily need to be the absolute top but if I decide to buy LCD-3, they have to be as good as LCD-2 in terms of fullbodied sound and offer VERY GOOD 3D imaging and accuracy.

 

To be honest, going for HD800 makes more sense to me since it really should be the best in terms of what I am looking for. However, I would prefer to have one pair of dynamic headphone to offer all of it (including what LCD-2 offers) to not have to switch between them.

post #26 of 58

Might I ask you what the importance of pinpoint imaging is, if you don't know how the actual recording looked like in person to begin with?  From my experience with the HD800, it isn't so much '3d,' as it is wide.  I've not heard the the LCD-2 or 3, so I don't know how they project sound.

post #27 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Might I ask you what the importance of pinpoint imaging is, if you don't know how the actual recording looked like in person to begin with?  From my experience with the HD800, it isn't so much '3d,' as it is wide.  I've not heard the the LCD-2 or 3, so I don't know how they project sound.

 

As I said - the depth is the most important factor... The height or width not so much. Precise instrument placement is also very important, I would like to have a clear image of where the instrument are placed. From the "battle of the flagship article": "The height is not exceptional, but the depth and width are exemplary."

 

I still wonder how much better HD800 are in comparison to LCD-3 regarding to holographic imaging... Haven't found the answer anywhere on head-fi or on the web.

 

There is also a note about imaging of LCD-3:

 

"IMAGING: I found that the headphones were not quite as good at imaging as their price tag would suggest. This could be an unfortunate side-effect of the subdued sound presentation. When using the LCD-3, I find that I am not able to discern the exact positioning of instruments as well as I as can when using the HD800 and HE-6, for instance."


Edited by RustA - 1/21/13 at 10:26am
post #28 of 58

To be honest with you. Don't have the time or the motivation to write an extensive review of either the LCD-3 or HD800 out of O2.

O2 is a good amp for aprox 100 USD. But it is in no way "the final word" in anything.

 

If you want the HD800, which I highly recommend. You need to seriously consider the up-stream gear. It's picky.

I wasn't extremely fond of the HD800 until I heard it from my Zana Deux. Then it was game, set and match.

 

LCD-3 is a good headphone but in no way is it worth the extra 950 USD. In no way. Period. But if you want to "waste" your money, sure buy the LCD-3 and drive it with an O2. Or prepare to invest about 1500-2500 USD in an amp and good DAC to really make HD800 shine.

 

The manifesto on the creators blog is impressive, and all the references make it look like it's all true. But maybe there's a little more than just expectation bias behind some of the amps on the market.

post #29 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValentinHogea View Post

To be honest with you. Don't have the time or the motivation to write an extensive review of either the LCD-3 or HD800 out of O2.

O2 is a good amp for aprox 100 USD. But it is in no way "the final word" in anything.

 

If you want the HD800, which I highly recommend. You need to seriously consider the up-stream gear. It's picky.

I wasn't extremely fond of the HD800 until I heard it from my Zana Deux. Then it was game, set and match.

 

LCD-3 is a good headphone but in no way is it worth the extra 950 USD. In no way. Period. But if you want to "waste" your money, sure buy the LCD-3 and drive it with an O2. Or prepare to invest about 1500-2500 USD in an amp and good DAC to really make HD800 shine.

 

The manifesto on the creators blog is impressive, and all the references make it look like it's all true. But maybe there's a little more than just expectation bias behind some of the amps on the market.

 

Thank you very much for your post. I am not going to debate about O2 since I am not interested. It's the best amp I have heard bellow 1000USD... Never going to spend more for "an amplification tool". Period. DACs are a different category though...

 

I am considering the HD800 more and more... However, as I do not want to waste my money, I have created this thread obviously (and am searching for more info simultaneously). However, I would like to stay away from elitism like "you have to spend thousands to get a right amplification and DAC because otherwise it is going to sound like crap and you are obviously a fool if you think otherwise". Thank you very much! smily_headphones1.gif

 

My questions are clear, you can read them in the first post... If not interested, do not answer and stay away from this topic. Thank you once again!

post #30 of 58
I found the O2 to drive the HD800's just fine on the 6.5x gain setting with a strong enough power supply. If you leave it on the low gain setting it will sound thin and lack bass, but this is not the case when enabling the additional power (the 800 still won't have the bass extension of the LCD-2, but it's good nonetheless). I compared it with a ~$1k burson and there was no major difference at all. The only upgrade I would say is worthwhile at this point is probably to a phonitor, and that's mostly because of its crossfeed circuit...

(EDIT: I should clarify that I mean this only within the realm of solid-state amps. I like a flat response, so I don't mess with tubes.)

Anyways, I haven't tried the LCD-3, but I have tried the LCD-2, and I can easily say the HD800 is a big step up in terms of imaging/soundstage/depth, and I really can't see any other non-electrostat phone beating it in that regard right now. And yes, the sound signature is very much neutral (though maybe a tad bit hyped in the 6k-10khz area, which can be fixed by modding), it sounds a lot like listening to real studio monitors. However, I wouldn't recommend them for enjoyable listening unless you really want that dry studio monitor sound, cause despite its impressive technical merits, the audeze is probably more 'enjoyable'. The HD800 is certainly more comfortable though, that's for sure...
Edited by oblique63 - 1/21/13 at 12:39pm
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