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= Hifiman HE500 & HE400 Jergpad Mod v2.5 = - Page 63

post #931 of 1643

Lol at hifimanrookie's ramblings. :tongue:

Quote:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
 

^Did I quote you?

 

On another note, I'd wish the new mod would adress some of the incoherency of the mids compared to velours, though I don't see how to improve on that aspect.. The only thing I like over the jergpads when we are talking vocals, is the coherency the velours seem to have. Don't misunderstand me here, the velour mids are definitely flawed in other ways.

 

damn u have lots of haters already... what did u do?killa sweet fluffy kittycat? :D

 

seriously...i think i read here on this thead the 'dynamic duo' are now working on a way to take care of that midrange thingie... we just have to wait... and ..i did made 2 pair of jerg pads... and although they are not good...and 1 i had to throw away..1 i even put on my headphones...it sounded horrible..lolz....the modulor pads just is in another league (especially that i now did the 180degrees vents reverse action)..and i am glad i am one of the first ones to have one pair...am waiting what they have on their sleeves for rev. 3...

and about my mishaps with building pads..well...lets say i have other specialities... but am glad we have modulor and jerg kind of people.. :gs1000smile:..if we were all evely handy in everything this world would be utmost boring..dont u think so? as now u can make make funny remarks on those poor basterds (like me) who cant even cut holes in a pair of pads... and u will feel better then after joking...and so not grabbing for alcohol to feel good...:veryevil:..u see... everything has its purpose in life... :rolleyes:

 

post #932 of 1643
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
 

^Did I quote you?

 

On another note, I'd wish the new mod would adress some of the incoherency of the mids compared to velours, though I don't see how to improve on that aspect.. The only thing I like over the jergpads when we are talking vocals, is the coherency the velours seem to have. Don't misunderstand me here, the velour mids are definitely flawed in other ways.

 

 

If you are really curious about what exactly I have been trying to fix, I can tell you (and others who are wondering).

 

 

IMO the biggest issue with Hifiman pleather earpads is ringing in the midrange, that I have said times and again. Having damping holes on the undersides of the pads helps that dramatically, but it is not nearly 100% complete in damping the midrange, there is still a nasty midrange resonance around 600 Hz or so (spanning about 50 Hz on either side) even with Modulor's or my own v2.0 Jergpads.

 

Now, ringing doesn't show up on FRs or THDs, it only shows up on CSDs but even then anything below 1500 Hz on CSDs is just a big smear anyway, so that's hardly useful. But it's very obvious with sinewave sweeps and listening by ear, and in music tracks that happen to emphasize the frequency band that is resonant (in this case, certain piano tracks and ambient music, which actually sound painful due to this "glare").

 

This extra modding step was my attempt at giving the pleather earpads some degree of air-damping, instead of just partial absorptive damping (of the underside holes leading to the guts of the earpads). This is done by adding port holes around the outer rims of the pleather, so that the whole damping scheme gets closer to velours (where excess sound energy passes through the inner enclosure and through the earpad foam and out the velour fabric all wrapped outside), but not nearly as drastic. 

 

It's an idea that has been floating in my head since I first started brainstorming modding the pleather earpads, but that I never dared to really consider because it is so destructive (you cut holes into the pleather material!) and ugly (holes all around the outer rims of the earpads) and be potentially bad for the pad longevity (dust etc could easily trap in). But Modulor's method of the velour top mod, where he actually encases the modded pleathers in a complete shell of velour earpads, completely solves those issues. Apparently Modulor's considered something similar too but didn't dare to act on it.

 

As for the actual results of doing this mod (rather than just hypothesizing about it), to my ears it cuts down the 600 Hz ringing substantially, not completely, but by a large margin. This in turn makes piano music bearable (and actually good-sounding) finally, and vocal music is less stuffy/cupped. I can't say that the 1kHz-2kHz region is raised due to this change, but the abrupt transition between lower midrange and central midrange definitely evens out a fair amount.

 

In my honest opinion, having smoother transition from 500 Hz to 1000 Hz in HE500 is way more important than the presence of a dip at 2kHz, the former determines the clarity and listenability of the midrange as a whole, while the latter just adds/detracts forwardness in the midrange.

 

 

I didn't go over everything with this fairly long post, and this is just an ad hoc unstructured post, but I hope that is a slice of my thought process (with regards to my approach of experimentation with modding) that could be understood with you guys.


Edited by jerg - 9/3/13 at 6:36pm
post #933 of 1643

This is my biggest gripe with HE-500. I really hope you guys nail it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerg View Post

 

As for the actual results of doing this mod (rather than just hypothesizing about it), to my ears it cuts down the 600 Hz ringing substantially, not completely, but by a large margin. This in turn makes piano music bearable (and actually good-sounding) finally, and vocal music is less stuffy/cupped. I can't say that the 1kHz-2kHz region is raised due to this change, but the abrupt transition between lower midrange and central midrange definitely evens out a fair amount.

 

In my honest opinion, having smoother transition from 500 Hz to 1000 Hz in HE500 is way more important than the presence of a dip at 2kHz, the former determines the clarity and listenability of the midrange as a whole, while the latter just adds/detracts forwardness in the midrange.

 

post #934 of 1643
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post


If you are really curious about what exactly I have been trying to fix, I can tell you (and others who are wondering).


IMO the biggest issue with Hifiman pleather earpads is ringing in the midrange, that I have said times and again. Having damping holes on the undersides of the pads helps that dramatically, but it is not nearly 100% complete in damping the midrange, there is still a nasty midrange resonance around 600 Hz or so (spanning about 50 Hz on either side) even with Modulor's or my own v2.0 Jergpads.

Now, ringing doesn't show up on FRs or THDs, it only shows up on CSDs but even then anything below 1500 Hz on CSDs is just a big smear anyway, so that's hardly useful. But it's very obvious with sinewave sweeps and listening by ear, and in music tracks that happen to emphasize the frequency band that is resonant (in this case, certain piano tracks and ambient music, which actually sound painful due to this "glare").

This extra modding step was my attempt at giving the pleather earpads some degree of air-damping, instead of just partial absorptive damping (of the underside holes leading to the guts of the earpads). This is done by adding port holes around the outer rims of the pleather, so that the whole damping scheme gets closer to velours (where excess sound energy passes through the inner enclosure and through the earpad foam and out the velour fabric all wrapped outside), but not nearly as drastic. 

It's an idea that has been floating in my head since I first started brainstorming modding the pleather earpads, but that I never dared to really consider because it is so destructive (you cut holes into the pleather material!) and ugly (holes all around the outer rims of the earpads) and be potentially bad for the pad longevity (dust etc could easily trap in). But Modulor's method of the velour top mod, where he actually encases the modded pleathers in a complete shell of velour earpads, completely solves those issues. Apparently Modulor's considered something similar too but didn't dare to act on it.

As for the actual results of doing this mod (rather than just hypothesizing about it), to my ears it cuts down the 600 Hz ringing substantially, not completely, but by a large margin. This in turn makes piano music bearable (and actually good-sounding) finally, and vocal music is less stuffy/cupped. I can't say that the 1kHz-2kHz region is raised due to this change, but the abrupt transition between lower midrange and central midrange definitely evens out a fair amount.

In my honest opinion, having smoother transition from 500 Hz to 1000 Hz in HE500 is way more important than the presence of a dip at 2kHz, the former determines the clarity and listenability of the midrange as a whole, while the latter just adds/detracts forwardness in the midrange.


I didn't go over everything with this fairly long post, and this is just an ad hoc unstructured post, but I hope that is a slice of my thought process (with regards to my approach of experimentation with modding) that could be understood with you guys.
When does modulor think to have the new rev 3 pads ready with this last mod? As i want a pair...even that i the rev 2 pads from him...biggrin.gif
post #935 of 1643
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


When does modulor think to have the new rev 3 pads ready with this last mod? As i want a pair...even that i the rev 2 pads from him...biggrin.gif

Dunno, he has his own schedule. I just chat with him over PMs to discuss cool findings and brainstorm ideas.

post #936 of 1643

I just got done with the pictures for the tutorial, including what I did for the new revision (or 5th step if you will) - I'm going to write it up and compile it tomorrow, share it with Jerg for his input then post it here when it's ready.  As for the Round 2 group buy, I'm still waiting to hear back from Jude to confirm that it's OK to proceed, but I imagine he gets *alot* of PM's.  I went back and read the rules, and since this is going to be a much bigger one than Round 1, I just want to make sure it's legit.

post #937 of 1643

What effect can we expect of this latest mod when paired with HE400s?

post #938 of 1643
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcpk View Post
 

What effect can we expect of this latest mod when paired with HE400s?

I'm guessing that there will be a similar effect, though there aren't any measurements of any of the jergpad steps on the HE-400. I'm considering sending mine to purrin with modulor's pads on them to get measured though...

post #939 of 1643

I can't wait to try these new pads out. Listening to the HE-400 of of the DragonFly but I feel it needs a pinch more bass. :basshead:

post #940 of 1643
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post
 

I'm guessing that there will be a similar effect, though there aren't any measurements of any of the jergpad steps on the HE-400. I'm considering sending mine to purrin with modulor's pads on them to get measured though...

 

Something may be arranged very soon for Purrin to measure pads from Modulor's upcoming batch. Not sure if they will be measured with HE400 though (I only know Purrin definitely owns a pair of HE500), we'll see.

post #941 of 1643

I just completed part 1 of the mod (holes in pads) on my HE-400. I'm going to be doing part 2 next, the velour tops once my velour pads arrive, and maybe the sub-bass adhesion as well (though I'm not sure how I feel about putting the adhesive on the headphones, considering that it will be hard to get off).

Anyway, here are my basic impressions so far:

The bass is tighter. It lost a little bit of its fun perhaps, but that fun sounded like too much midbass on some songs, so its more balanced overall. Before the mod, I was EQing the bass down. Now, I find myself EQing it up. 

The midrange sounds much more present and clear, which is the main thing I was hoping for. Before, something about the midrange just sounded off. I'm guessing it was the "cupped" signature from resonance caused by the stock pleathers. Now, the u-shaped signature is reduced and the midrange sounds more natural. 

Treble is smoother now. I'm still EQing the 9khz spike down, but I can turn up the volume a lot more now without getting fatigued. 

I get the sense that imaging has become a tiny bit less precise, but I'm not sure. I'll have to listen more. Something seems a little different, like the soundstage became a little more diffuse. 

Overall, this mod was a good choice. However, I can see myself ordering some stock pleathers to use every now and then when I want to rock out to some electronic music where the midrange doesn't matter. The bass was more fun with the stock pleathers, but the midrange wasn't quite right. This mod fixed the midrange at the expense of a luxurious dollop of that that luscious, wet bass. 

Also, has anyone put the stock spacers back in the pads? I'll be trying it myself, but I'm wondering how it changes the sound.


EDIT: After increasing the gain settings on my amp (Little Dot MK3, change from 4 to 10), my complaints about the bass and imaging are gone. These headphones are rocking hard now. I'm really noticing how much louder I can turn up the volume now. The sound is just cleaner and less fatiguing. 


Edited by manbear - 9/9/13 at 8:35am
post #942 of 1643
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post
 

I'm guessing that there will be a similar effect, though there aren't any measurements of any of the jergpad steps on the HE-400. I'm considering sending mine to purrin with modulor's pads on them to get measured though...

 

Something may be arranged very soon for Purrin to measure pads from Modulor's upcoming batch. Not sure if they will be measured with HE400 though (I only know Purrin definitely owns a pair of HE500), we'll see.

My HE-400's are en route to purrin. Excited to see what the graphs have to say :)

post #943 of 1643
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post
 

My HE-400's are en route to purrin. Excited to see what the graphs have to say :)

 

You are one of the first-batchers (for Modulor's modded pads) am I correct?

post #944 of 1643
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post
 

 

You are one of the first-batchers (for Modulor's modded pads) am I correct?

 

Yes

post #945 of 1643
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thujone View Post
 

 

Yes

I see. Modulor is going to send a pair of batch 2 jergpads to Purrin as well, to measure on HE500s; when exactly that I do not know.

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