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= Hifiman HE500 & HE400 Jergpad Mod v2.5 = - Page 56

post #826 of 1702
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post

So has anyone tried cutting the damping holes on the velour instead of the pleathers? If so what are the impressions? I dont want to completely mangle them if it sounds bad.

I really hated it. I actually performend the full v2.0 4-step mod on a pair of velours (still have it), and it sounds way too thin and bright to be usable with HE400 or HE500. It was overdamped and consequentially, any sense of body and lushness in the bass / midrange is gone. In fact I still think even stock velour pads are overdamped with regards to the lower end.

post #827 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

I really hated it. I actually performend the full v2.0 4-step mod on a pair of velours (still have it), and it sounds way too thin and bright to be usable with HE400 or HE500. It was overdamped and consequentially, any sense of body and lushness in the bass / midrange is gone. In fact I still think even stock velour pads are overdamped with regards to the lower end.

Thanks Jerg. I finished up the full jerg mod today besides the velour cut-out for the pleather. Im going to find something similar with adhesive backing. My impressions so far is that the mod has breathed new life into my HE-500s. Its an immediately noticeable improvement for the better. More air, better bass are the first things noticeable. I also did a grill mod that has high grill to air ratio so im quite satisfied. They were on the chopping block from my collection, now they live another day biggrin.gif

post #828 of 1702

I find it funny how the impressions are suddenly night and day.. They weren't in the beginning. I guess people believe more in the mod by now, and are more well informed in regards to how the pads are supposed to sound.

post #829 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

I find it funny how the impressions are suddenly night and day.. They weren't in the beginning. I guess people believe more in the mod by now, and are more well informed in regards to how the pads are supposed to sound.


seriously..from the beginning i always stated there is a HUGe difference in sound between the pleathers and velours...but funny thing is that i preferred the pleathers more on my he300 and he400 above the velours...but preffered the velours on the he500 over the pleathers...

 

and davidsh...if u really wanna upgrade ur soundexperience...buy the jerg by modulor pads...Everyone..and i mean EVERYONE who got the first batch are delirious about how it upgrades the soundexperience and the comfort... so i wont go into that myself...

 

but somehow i am only one who said the difference was HUGE (can also be becuase i am only one having the cups completely open and most of times listen to extreme high quality lossless tracks of live concerts)..but i guess its also something to do with my good source and my (pityful) sold evil 337..as that amp really gave the he500 wings..and my latest cables being balanced and 8wired.... but as i said before...my ears are extremely sensitive to sounds..its a curse sometimes...i cant go to any live concerts as afterwards i have a severe headache!


Edited by hifimanrookie - 8/17/13 at 7:49pm
post #830 of 1702

Since we probably don't even have the same opinion on what a huge difference is, I will not really discuss how big the difference is, it makes no sens. In general I am a conservative person. I think the difference is substantial, but on the other hand it isn't as big as I want to make it out to be if I compare directly. When I say substantial, I relate it too how much more I enjoy the sound. If I said it was night and day, it would mean the listening experience was really bad before and became pretty good or it was good before and became out of this world amazing.

post #831 of 1702
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

Since we probably don't even have the same opinion on what a huge difference is, I will not really discuss how big the difference is, it makes no sens. In general I am a conservative person. I think the difference is substantial, but on the other hand it isn't as big as I want to make it out to be if I compare directly. When I say substantial, I relate it too how much more I enjoy the sound. If I said it was night and day, it would mean the listening experience was really bad before and became pretty good or it was good before and became out of this world amazing.

The relative magnitudes of English adjectives are more blurred for an English-as-a-second-language speaker. Plus some people like to speak in hyperbole (myself included, occasionally).

post #832 of 1702

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's a huge difference, but it is immediately noticeable and for the better over the stock velours. The grill mod is almost mandatory with jerg pads IMO. It's a great combo once complete. Plus, if you don't like it just buy some new pads, no permanent damage done! It's no HE-6 properly amped, but it is certainly better than LCD-2 after modding IMO (not a basshead).


Edited by brunk - 8/17/13 at 6:02pm
post #833 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

The relative magnitudes of English adjectives are more blurred for an English-as-a-second-language speaker. Plus some people like to speak in hyperbole (myself included, occasionally).

True, but I think words as huge and night 'n day are pretty universal in their meaning across most languages, and aren't to be mistaken easily. To exaggerate in audio is almost necessary, in order to understand what one actually means, though.. 

 

Personally, I didn't think the difference between grills and no grills were substantial when I tested. It was a pretty slight difference but it is long time ago, all the way back before the Jerg mod existed and I was still in the honeymoon fase.

post #834 of 1702
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

True, but I think words as huge and night 'n day are pretty universal in their meaning across most languages, and aren't to be mistaken easily. To exaggerate in audio is almost necessary, in order to understand what one actually means, though.. 

 

Personally, I didn't think the difference between grills and no grills were substantial when I tested. It was a pretty slight difference but it is long time ago, all the way back before the Jerg mod existed and I was still in the honeymoon fase.

Nothing dramatic happens with the regrilling mod or just getting rid of grills altogether, it just makes treble cleaner and less enclosed / a very slight veil that you might even not notice beforehand is lifted.

 

 

I like to cite the first reviewers to try some form of "regrilling mod" with encouragement from Dr. Fang himself, and their perception of the (also IMO slightly hyperbolic) changes accompanied:

 

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/hifiman/system_3.html

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

Postscript. Shortly after my review published, Fang Bian wrote in: "About the veiling which you reported, my engineer and I came up with a solution after a telephone meet last night. Please read the following link." The fix—for those only who concur with my criticisms of course—is the removal of the thin cloth grill attached to the inside of the honeycomb cover. With a very thin-bladed jewelry screw driver, gently unseat the inner ring which affixes the perf cover to the frame. The ring is held in place by four tiny protrusions. Be sure to not deform the ring too much so it won't break while you snap it out.
 
10.jpg

Once the cover is free, peel off the cloth cover, then put everything back. The four ring catches must meet their corresponding recesses to snap back. Naturally, this mini surgery also removes a dust barrier which protected the Mylar diaphragm. What the long-term effects might be isn't known. I can only tell you that sonically, it's far from subtle.


Naturally, the only frequencies affected are those actually damped by the cloth - the treble. Astonishingly, it's not even the forward but backward radiation of the film's HF energy that's altered (originally absorbed/damped, now left to pass). Why should air moving away from your ears improve airiness? I can only speculate that the damping of that part of the rear wave to which the cloth isn't transparent also impinges on the free development of its front wave. Experiments with Franck Tchang resonators and his peculiar but effective approach to harmonic liberation have taught me that the biggest enemy to complete overtone restoration is overdamping. Damping the rear wave of the tiniest diaphragm flutters also damps the full development of the frontal output.
 
Perhaps. The explanation I leave to the engineers. The results certainly take no guess work. While cosmetics do take a hit—you'll see exactly what the final photo shows which is now barely obscured by the open honeycomb pattern—those fine decay trails and reverberations that were previously obscured (killed by damping as it were) are now released. This has nothing whatsoever to do with becoming sizzly or sharp. It's all about the restored breath of life. Things which previously felt somewhat flat, reined in and muted open up. Recorded ambience deepens and with it, spaciousness. If you're careful with the removal of the cloth, it's easy enough to put back. Try and see what you prefer. To my ears, nude is definitely the way forward - and not just by a few marginal inches but significantly. Perhaps HifiMan will come up with a solution that accomplishes this whilst retaining the previous dust barrier function? I would experiment with a thinner dust cloth on the outside and inside and/or perhaps a more open perforation pattern of the honeycomb cover. Actually, a central hole in the cloth to match the hole of the felt star absorber worked out perfectly for me and also looked better than fully nude.
11.jpg
 
Tim de Paravicini of E.A.R. with HE-5LE

Fang Bian responded: "The first prototype was made without grill cloth. It has been used for more than four years without any problems.
 
12.jpg  

 

 

 

Those "fine decay trails and reverberations that were previously obscured (killed by damping as it were)" as stated by the 6moons reviewer, are the nuances meant to be unveiled by the regrilling mod. Whether or not those nuances are important to the listener, or in fact detectable by the listener, is up to the listener.


Edited by jerg - 8/17/13 at 6:25pm
post #835 of 1702

Don't even want to read anything from 6moon, my stomach is already turning after reading some cable differences/DAC/amp importance stuff elsewhere, really trying hard to behave ph34r.gif

post #836 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

True, but I think words as huge and night 'n day are pretty universal in their meaning across most languages, and aren't to be mistaken easily. To exaggerate in audio is almost necessary, in order to understand what one actually means, though.. 

 

Personally, I didn't think the difference between grills and no grills were substantial when I tested. It was a pretty slight difference but it is long time ago, all the way back before the Jerg mod existed and I was still in the honeymoon fase.


wow..we agree on one thing biggrin.gif .....

 

ur right..the grill mod (and in my situation..huge openings and no dustscreen) isnt a HUGE difference...it just puts those last pieces in place in ur listening experience..especially in live recordings of orchestra's or big group of instruments/singers..as jerg also said once...

 

but the biggest change coming from velours to jerg pads was the fuller more musical less edgy sound in all octaves....as if ur actually there...

 

i have to admit..first day i didnt like how it portraited the higher voices (treble)..to my ears it was muffled a bit (like people experiencing going from hifiman to a audeze phone)....but i am openminded for new things so i tried it a day or two to give it a fair shot.....

 

and after two days my ears got customed to the more 'natural' sound (checked with my wife being a extreme fan of mariah...she visited many concerts already..so she knows how she sounds for real..and she said with the jergs her voice sounded closer to LIVE then with the velours...)..and myself once heared queen live... and the guitar has indeed more body to it just like in real life as the guitar solo's was the thing i remember most of that concert, that guy was a magician on the guitar!!!!!...

 

but as i also said..everyone experiences music/sound differently physicallly (some have more sensitive ears then others) and also some rigs are MORE sensitive to changes in components or parts in it...

 

and i guess we are also different in the way we enjoy our music also.u being a danish more down to earth (more critical?) guy and i being a more passionate (more emotional?)portuguese/dutch dude.. but nevertheless...most important is that we BOTH enjoy our music..we all are friends here with same passion..only we express it differently..beerchug.gif


Edited by hifimanrookie - 8/17/13 at 6:39pm
post #837 of 1702

Guess I can agree with all said above eek.gif

 

Was just reading an article aobut compensation curves and HRTFs. It's funny how individual the perceived sound seems to be.. In general I find this hobby very, very chaotic. Talking from experience, I think it is more relative, harder to get a gripe on, and more far stretched than quantum physics, relativity and the like (another interest of mine). So many things that can vary.

 

Better gotta go to bed, I tend to get caried away at night with my Stax'. Actually, I find them to be less fatigueing than the HE-500. Soo, what do you listen to right now? 

post #838 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

Guess I can agree with all said above eek.gif

 

Was just reading an article aobut compensation curves and HRTFs. It's funny how individual the perceived sound seems to be.. In general I find this hobby very, very chaotic. Talking from experience, I think it is more relative, harder to get a gripe on, and more far stretched than quantum physics, relativity and the like (another interest of mine). So many things that can vary.

 

Better gotta go to bed, I tend to get caried away at night with my Stax'. Actually, I find them to be less fatigueing than the HE-500. Soo, what do you listen to right now? 

i see ur avatar..UR STUNNED..hehehehe...wow..a miracle happened!! u agreed completely..okay..u started with: I guess..lolz.... but i think we are not so different..u and i..we only express it differently...we are both passionate in what we believe in..and act on that...

 

but back to ur question:

 

am watching a movie now... the HEAT ...with the wifey..she got awake by a monster biting musquito (it was huge! but i killed it with my (not jerg) modified orange electrical racket..damn took a while until it died..but he burned!)..lolz...music is for later..(i found some 'Enya' stuff laying around)...i love them!)..or wifey gets feeling neglected...women tend to get very cranky when they awake during the night and then not getting attention.....so i give her some TLC so she goes back to bed  again..as its 4:22am now...she is to tired to do anything else anyway...  biggrin.gif


Edited by hifimanrookie - 8/17/13 at 7:23pm
post #839 of 1702

Ohh well I need 9 hours of sleep so...

 

Apparently you are doing something else than watching the movie wink.gif

post #840 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

Ohh well I need 9 hours of sleep so...

 

Apparently you are doing something else than watching the movie wink.gif


not tonight  biggrin.gif...i wish! my wife is like u..needs her beautysleep..and today was a LOOONG day anyway for both of us...since 9am we have been shopping/getting inspiration for stuff for our new appartment until 20:00pm... and women tend to be very passionate into that i can tell u! damn..we walked for miles! i cant understand how she can do that with her 8.5cm heels all day! she hates low heels! so i give her some rest...am a good husband...its give and receive... wink.gif

me?...4 hours is sufficient for sleeping..my boss loves me deeply as she knows i do lots of work at times when everyone has their beautysleep!.so i can be very productive...and normally my wife loves my extra duracell energy also when she needs it tongue.gif

 

i think my relaxing listening time will be around 5am ish today..so i guess i wont be getting sleep today...oh well...nothing new!

sooo..sleep well!atsmile.gif


Edited by hifimanrookie - 8/17/13 at 7:43pm
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