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= Hifiman HE500 & HE400 Jergpad Mod v2.5 = - Page 43

post #631 of 1702

The velours have more of a U-shape sound sig in comparison to the jergpad which is a little flatter. Perhaps you just prefer the more 'fun' sounding velours. I actually felt the same way you did with regards to the bass, it felt toned down and less tactile, but that was before I did the sub bass mod which elevated the bass to velour pad levels. 

post #632 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

The velours have more of a U-shape sound sig in comparison to the jergpad which is a little flatter. Perhaps you just prefer the more 'fun' sounding velours. I actually felt the same way you did with regards to the bass, it felt toned down and less tactile, but that was before I did the sub bass mod which elevated the bass to velour pad levels. 


I was going to return these headphones and I did the mod in the hope of getting a flatter and more neutral midrange (not as recessed) and to tame the very top end tizziness.  The tizziness was tamed somewhat, but I didn't hear significant improvement in the mids, just a decrease in dynamics and bass response, which isn't what I want!  I'm sure I'll try the sub bass mod at some point, but not confident I'm going to prefer it over the velours.  I decided to keep the HE-400s anyway, mostly as my brain is adjusting to them, so I am enjoying them more and more as each day goes by.

post #633 of 1702
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post

Well, having just done this mod (part I) on my he-400 stock pleathers, I have to admit that I immediately went back to the velours as everything was a definite step back for me, especially lack of bass definition and lack of dynamics in general.  Everything just sounded less alive and clear.  I have quite a small head too, so the thin profile of the modified pleather meant that I felt I wasn't getting a good clamp, more like the headphones just resting on top of my head.  Slightly disappointed after all that effort!  Definitely sticking to the velours.  Thanks for all your efforts though, jerg, it's just not for me.
 

That's a shame, I think the reason why it did not work out well for you is because you have a smallish head. The mod shines if there is moderate clamping with the pleathers, as it gets the ears to an optimally close distance from the drivers for the upper midrange to pop and treble to take a step back.

 

If clamp isn't there then you 1) have an inadequate seal so bass would suck, and 2) won't have that treble attenuation / midrange correction I mentioned above.

 

I WOULD recommend you try one last thing to increase clamp (via headband bending) but that's just me.

post #634 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

That's a shame, I think the reason why it did not work out well for you is because you have a smallish head. The mod shines if there is moderate clamping with the pleathers, as it gets the ears to an optimally close distance from the drivers for the upper midrange to pop and treble to take a step back.

 

If clamp isn't there then you 1) have an inadequate seal so bass would suck, and 2) won't have that treble attenuation / midrange correction I mentioned above.

 

I WOULD recommend you try one last thing to increase clamp (via headband bending) but that's just me.


Thanks jerg, I may as well try out all my options.  Gonna get some double-sided tape tomorrow and have another bash.

 

Thanks for your input, it makes sense.

post #635 of 1702

I can't help noticing 1 flaw in the Jergpad mod 1.1. With female vocals and bright instruments, the velours actually have a more uniform presentation in the upper mids, not looking at the obviously less good tonality.

I tried comparing on an amp with 2 outputs with another HE-500 with velour pads. It did have a rather expensive cable I must add.

 

Anyways, I feel the Jergpads lack a bit around what must be 2 kHz according to the measurements. Instruments with Jerg's seems a bit too lean. Not that they lack definition or pronounciation or clearness, because they have, they just lack a bit of 'aggresiveness' (in lack of a better word, not that they should be aggresive or in-your-face, they are just a bit too lean).

 

Before I made more holes and only had 1 row of holes this wasn't an issue

 

I don't remember who, but someone in this thread reported something that I might think is similar to my experience


Edited by davidsh - 4/16/13 at 10:14am
post #636 of 1702
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

I can't help noticing 1 flaw in the Jergpad mod 1.1. With female vocals and bright instruments, the velours actually have a more uniform presentation in the upper mids, not looking at the obviously less good tonality.

I tried comparing on an amp with 2 outputs with another HE-500 with velour pads. It did have a rather expensive cable I must add.

 

Anyways, I feel the Jergpads lack a bit around what must be 2 kHz according to the measurements. Instruments with Jerg's seems a bit too lean. Not that they lack definition or pronounciation or clearness, because they have, they just lack a bit of 'aggresiveness' (in lack of a better word, not that they should be aggresive or in-your-face, they are just a bit too lean).

 

Before I made more holes and only had 1 row of holes this wasn't an issue

 

I don't remember who, but someone in this thread reported something that I might think is similar to my experience

The 2kHz dip, as a result of the holes, helps clear the congestion in the sound and "make it more open-sounding", as a consequence it might sound less "wet / thick" than before.

 

Here are my thoughts regarding it in another forum, posted a few weeks ago:

 

"Did some subjective EQ tests today, turns out the slight 2kHz dip introduced by the mods causes the sound to be a bit drier but clearer than if I EQ'd that region to be "in line".  It (the dip) certainly isn't contributing to any "cupped" effects or anything, it just attenuates the lushness / wetness of midrange down a little bit. I don't mind it at all."

post #637 of 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

The 2kHz dip, as a result of the holes, helps clear the congestion in the sound and "make it more open-sounding", as a consequence it might sound less "wet / thick" than before.

 

Here are my thoughts regarding it in another forum, posted a few weeks ago:

 

"Did some subjective EQ tests today, turns out the slight 2kHz dip introduced by the mods causes the sound to be a bit drier but clearer than if I EQ'd that region to be "in line".  It (the dip) certainly isn't contributing to any "cupped" effects or anything, it just attenuates the lushness / wetness of midrange down a little bit. I don't mind it at all."

Interestingi I am going to test with some EQ right now.

post #638 of 1702
Thread Starter 

Took the jergpads off my HE500s today to check out the drivers and make sure there is no dust / hair particle that sneaked in over the past 2 months of daily usage (especially with the backvents mod).

 

No dust/hair! Very surprised as my room is quite dusty and I typically leave the HE500s out on the table, with the backvents facing up biggrin.gif.

 

The double-sided tape used in the sub-bass mod disengaged surprisingly cleanly, I was initially worried that it'd make a huge mess when I pry the earpads off, but it all stayed 100% intact on the mounting rings, without any residues on the cups. Re-installing the earpads is a breeze as well.

post #639 of 1702

How would you compare this mod to J$ pads?  Velours for me added soundstage but became screechy and killed the bass.  Pleathers had better bass and weren't screechy, but their soundstage seems awful and narrow which also seems to add a little too much focus to cymbals which makes them unbearable.  J$ pads retain the velour soundstage which removes the cymbal issue without becoming screechy.  J$ also has most, but not all, of the pleather bass.

 

Edit: Talking about HE-500

post #640 of 1702
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott5526 View Post

How would you compare this mod to J$ pads?  Velours for me added soundstage but became screechy and killed the bass.  Pleathers had better bass and weren't screechy, but their soundstage seems awful and narrow which also seems to add a little too much focus to cymbals which makes them unbearable.  J$ pads retain the velour soundstage which removes the cymbal issue without becoming screechy.  J$ also has most, but not all, of the pleather bass.

 

Edit: Talking about HE-500

I commented about it in detail in the main post before, but removed those notes after I updated the mod to v2.0. Lemme find it...

 

 

Edit: here it is

 

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Ever since I got my HE500s two months ago, I have been very bothered that no earpad worked out perfectly for me with them.

 

The stock Hifiman velour pads (with detachable mounting rings) thin out the bass and lower midrange too much and cause the whole tonality to shift toward the upper midrange and treble, giving too much forwardness and glare, and too little body and fullness to the sound signature.

 

The stock Hifiman pleather pads, on the other hand, are almost exactly the opposite; they give an incredibly satisfying full-bodied lower end, tame the treble and upper midrange effectively, resulting in a tonality that renders everything from voices to instruments realistically and without any fatigue or glare. However there is one major downfall with the pleathers – they have a huge amount of chamber resonance in the opening of the earpads and so the HE500 ends up sounding cupped, and have little to no “air”, losing a huge amount of upper end detail extraction, and is almost muffled but not quite.

 

**Quick note: I never kept the foam spacers inside of the stock pleather pads because it 1) compromised the comfort and 2) muddled up the sound considerably into a wonky mess; also it won’t be compatible with this particular mod, so don’t even think about it….just throw it in the garbage right now **

 

This led me to try 2 other pads: vintage Hifiman velour pads (with permanently attached clear brittle plastic mounting mechanism), and the J-Money (J$) Beyerdynamic lambskin earpads. In short, neither gave me exactly what I want still.

 

The vintage velours tame the upper end much better than the new velours, but a large part of the lower end is nonexistent with these pads so the overall sound becomes too light and powerless.

 

The J$’s were the closest to perfect from my experience, where they extracted the most amount of overall detail from the drivers, had a great balance of the full-bodied nature of pleathers and the airiness and openness of the velours, and were just superior earpads in terms of comfort. The thing that persuaded me it was still not quite right was that it retained a lot of the upper mids glare and treble sibilance similar to the new velours, which was no issue with the pleathers and to a lesser degree to the vintage velours.

 

After playing around these four types of earpads for the past couple of weeks, I came to the realization that the unique effortless tonality of the Hifiman pleathers is intrinsic to the foam used in them (a dense foam with a memory-foam-like consistency), and the thickness (which determines how close your ears are to the drivers). This was not replicatable with any of the other pads as they use different types of foams with different thicknesses.

 

The full series of modifications basically fixed the issues (small soundstage, muffled treble, loose lower end, midrange ringing, lack of openness) while retaining its warm, natural timbre. To my ears it exceeds all the stock pads including the J$s, especially with HE500.

 


Edited by jerg - 5/5/13 at 11:15pm
post #641 of 1702
Thread Starter 

Might as well post it here for completion's sake; I redid the velour top mod on my own jergpads a couple of days ago, by opting to sew them on instead, with thread. Here's how it turned out

 

 

1000

 

This is definitely a much neater and more permanent method of doing this part of the mod; it's a bit grueling though, my fingers hurt for a day or two since pushing the needle in and out for over an hour doing this.

post #642 of 1702

Looks beautiful man! love the blue thread.

post #643 of 1702

Well I tried the sub-bass only mod with my velours on the he-400, but found no difference.  The good news is now my pads dont creak and move around at times, which makes the headhpones feel higher quality.

post #644 of 1702
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Well I tried the sub-bass only mod with my velours on the he-400, but found no difference.  The good news is now my pads dont creak and move around at times, which makes the headhpones feel higher quality.

What did you test with?

post #645 of 1702

The usual batch of my tests: test tones, frequency sweeps, pink noise, electronic music with low notes, a couple hans zimmer orchestrals.  HE-400 still rolls off at 35hz.

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