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= Hifiman HE500 & HE400 Jergpad Mod v2.0 = - Page 8

post #106 of 647
1/20/13 at 9:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

For me personally, I'm willing to trade some tonality for comfort. 

 

I've had this thought in my head... but have never been willing to go through with it: cut out the inner ring of leather/pleather from the pads, so that the foam is exposed. I have a feeling this would greatly increase absorption and strongly cut down that ear chambering treble

 

A long time ago I had this beat up pair of Sony V6's where the pads were so worn the stitching on the inside was gone and it was just exposed foam. Not only did I find them more comfortable, but the sound was also much more pleasing to my ear. Now whether or not that was a comfort/psychoacoustic thing, I can't say for certain. 

See, to my head the J$beyers and regular pleathers are a tradeoff in terms of comfort, J$'s have better softer material and larger surface area and so it is nicer-feeling, but pleathers are only about half the thickness so it is only half the clamping force.

 

I don't know about cutting an entire inner ring of the underside out, there is some pressure retaining the foam inside the pads, if you cut an entire ring out there's a fairly good chance that over some use a lot of the foam would protrude out of the cut openings.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blotto80 View Post

I just finished doing this, haven't listened yet but I thought I'd share what I did with the retention ring. Instead of completely removing the vinyl ring that holds the plastic clip to the earpad, I cut it open so it only has 5 small attached points to the pleather on the earcup. This allows me to continue to use the standard retention system without tape or glue and still be open, hopefully as good as complete removal.

Cool idea retaining the flaps. Not the cleanest cutting job but it should have the same mod effect.

 

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acapella11 View Post

So, I was kind of thinking about regaining some warmth and bass.

 

Considering, damping largely makes the difference between velours and pleathers, I decided to cut the eight most centric holes larger.

 

 

Result with HE-500: So, you lose a bit of air and stage and gain a slightly darker sound, which then also sounds a bit warmer plus you gain a bit of bass punch. Obviously, I cannot do an A/B ;) but I think this inner damping is quite influencing the tonal balance. For me the some of the velour sound was added now and the tonal balance is more even between treble and bass. I will A/B it more detailed with with velours some time soon.

This might be it now :)

I'm beginning to think that the critical part of the mod is the inner-most circle of damping rings too. Will likely try it sometime as well, and if the effect is immediate and positive, revise the original guide.

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post #107 of 647
1/20/13 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

See, to my head the J$beyers and regular pleathers are a tradeoff in terms of comfort, J$'s have better softer material and larger surface area and so it is nicer-feeling, but pleathers are only about half the thickness so it is only half the clamping force.

 

I don't know about cutting an entire inner ring of the underside out, there is some pressure retaining the foam inside the pads, if you cut an entire ring out there's a fairly good chance that over some use a lot of the foam would protrude out of the cut openings.

 

 

 

 

I actually wanted a little more clamping force. They just kinda hang on my head otherwise and all the weight rests on the top of my head. With the J$ the weight is more evenly distributed. The standard pads don't nearly shape to my head well enough either. The seal provided by the J$ pad really makes a difference for me. I wish the stock pads were just softer and a smidge thicker overall.

 

Well if the inner ring were cut, I wouldn't leave it just hanging there. Maybe just zigzag some thread across it to hold things in place, or replace with a more permeable fabric.. 

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post #108 of 647
1/20/13 at 10:13am

Just enjoying the music - really nice o2smile.gif

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post #109 of 647
1/20/13 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

 

I actually wanted a little more clamping force. They just kinda hang on my head otherwise and all the weight rests on the top of my head. With the J$ the weight is more evenly distributed. The standard pads don't nearly shape to my head well enough either. The seal provided by the J$ pad really makes a difference for me. I wish the stock pads were just softer and a smidge thicker overall.

 

Well if the inner ring were cut, I wouldn't leave it just hanging there. Maybe just zigzag some thread across it to hold things in place, or replace with a more permeable fabric.. 

Yeah the clamping force really depends on the head shape. My head is fairly wide, so I had to vigorously stretch my HE500 headband for the clamping force to be ok for me even with the pleather pads (the thinnest out of the pleather/velour/J$ assortment)! You can imagine how bad the clamp is with J$'s.

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post #110 of 647
1/20/13 at 10:33am

Clamp is probably why I prefer the Hifimans over the Audezes.

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post #111 of 647
1/20/13 at 11:26am

So i finally finished the mod, I had to super glue the dust cover to the plastic ring, and then use sellotape to attach the ring to the pad (no duct tape in the house frustratingly). First impressions, it feels like a total hack. The sellotape just isn't strong enough so the whole pad feels like it could fall apart. Im starting to wish I didn't cut off the outer plastic ring that held together the mounting ring. These reasons alone may be enough for me to go back to velours. The headphone just feel so flimsy on my head.

 

As for the sound, I haven't listened enough to judge but it's definitely better than stock pleather. I feel like any differences are really subtle so imo not worth the using these over the velour considering the disadvantages I mentioned.

 

All in all the mod was well worth the try since the pleathers were laying around unused but i think Im going back to velour, after further testing of course.


Edited by beaver316 - 1/20/13 at 11:34am
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post #112 of 647
1/20/13 at 11:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

So i finally finished the mod, I had to super glue the dust cover to the plastic ring, and then use sellotape to attach the ring to the pad (no duct tape in the house frustratingly). First impressions, it feels like a total hack. The sellotape just isn't strong enough so the whole pad feels like it could fall apart. Im starting to wish I didn't cut off the outer plastic ring that held together the mounting ring. These reasons alone may be enough for me to go back to velours. The headphone just feel so flimsy on my head.

 

As for the sound, I haven't listened enough to judge but it's definitely better than stock pleather. I feel like any differences are really subtle so imo not worth the using these over the velour considering the disadvantages I mentioned.

 

All in all the mod was well worth the try since the pleathers were laying around unused but i think Im going back to velour, after further testing of course.

Shame the mod didn't work out well for ya. It's impossible to say if your lack of positive results are due to how you performed the mod, or your listening tests afterward.

 

I recommended duct tape because it is extremely strong with very powerful adhesive properties (it's hard to rip the tape off without tearing the backside of the pads, it's that strong), which is why the finished assembly of the mod would feel flimsy if you used some other type of tape. With duct tape, the earpads stay on the mounting rings with a vise grip.

 

Mind removing the mounting ring again, and taking a photo of how you did the holes on the undersides?

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post #113 of 647
1/20/13 at 11:56am

 

Sure, this picture was from earlier. I followed your pattern pretty much exactly. Don't forget i also glued the dust screen on the ring, it has that distinct super glue smell engraved into the pads now.

 

Yeah for sure duct tape would have made a big difference, but it is only applied on the four 'corners' of the pad and ring. The areas where tape is not applied easily separate and that's an issue. 

 

edit: here's that the ring looks like with the dust screen glued on, i purposely left some slack in the screen because my ears touch it slightly. 

 

 


Edited by beaver316 - 1/20/13 at 12:00pm
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post #114 of 647
1/20/13 at 12:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

 

Sure, this picture was from earlier. I followed your pattern pretty much exactly. Don't forget i also glued the dust screen on the ring, it has that distinct super glue smell engraved into the pads now.

 

Yeah for sure duct tape would have made a big difference, but it is only applied on the four 'corners' of the pad and ring. The areas where tape is not applied easily separate and that's an issue. 

 

edit: here's that the ring looks like with the dust screen glued on, i purposely left some slack in the screen because my ears touch it slightly. 

 

 

Everything looks about right. The dust screen should not be the culprit here (I tried my modded pairs with some mounting rings I had that I already glued dust screens on with, and nothing was changed except treble was a little darker).

 

Perhaps you just don't like the tonality of the pleathers (meaty low end, dark upper end)?

 

The mod adds lots of damping so that ringing inherent with unmodded pleathers is fixed, and as a consequence airiness, detail, and soundstage are improved, however it is still pleather tonality at heart.

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post #115 of 647
1/20/13 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Everything looks about right. The dust screen should not be the culprit here (I tried my modded pairs with some mounting rings I had that I already glued dust screens on with, and nothing was changed except treble was a little darker).

 

Perhaps you just don't like the tonality of the pleathers (meaty low end, dark upper end)?

 

The mod adds lots of damping so that ringing inherent with unmodded pleathers is fixed, and as a consequence airiness, detail, and soundstage are improved, however it is still pleather tonality at heart.

 

Honestly I haven't formed an opinion on the sound yet. The time I posted my impressions I had listened to maybe 2 minutes worth of music. Im just disappointed with the fit and finish (my fault probably), not so much the sound.

 

I'll post further sound impressions once I form a more solid opinion.

 

What do you make of the difference between the jergpad and the velours? Also do you think the velours have that ringing issue you mention?

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post #116 of 647
1/20/13 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

 

Honestly I haven't formed an opinion on the sound yet. The time I posted my impressions I had listened to maybe 2 minutes worth of music. Im just disappointed with the fit and finish (my fault probably), not so much the sound.

 

I'll post further sound impressions once I form a more solid opinion.

 

What do you make of the difference between the jergpad and the velours? Also do you think the velours have that ringing issue you mention?

The difference between jergpad and velours is 2-fold: 1) the foam ring is of different material (pleathers use dense memory foam, velours use a looser regular foam), 2) the pleather vs velour material.

 

Velour material damps sound naturally since it is cloth so sound just gets absorbed in, unlike leather/pleather with which we have to cut out holes to at least partially damp the sound. That means chamber ringing is more or less minimized with velour pads.

 

However the advantage of leather/pleather is that it forms a better seal with the skin so bass and lower midrange conducts better, and also the memory foam only used with HFM pleathers furthers gives a meatier more solid musical timbre. These can never be matched by velour pads.

 

Of course unless you remove all the underside, the jergpads are not going to damp as well as velours, but it'd be close. Chamber ringing masks a lot of detail, air, and soundstage that would otherwise be there, so jergpads present these in spades compared to unmodded pleathers.

 

In the end though, if you dig the tonality of velours, then you would not like the pleathers no matter how you mod them. (the best way to judge tonal balance IMO is to listen to well-recorded vocal music, if the vocals sound more real and natural then the tonality is right, if not then not. Velours don't)

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post #117 of 647
1/20/13 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

The difference between jergpad and velours is 2-fold: 1) the foam ring is of different material (pleathers use dense memory foam, velours use a looser regular foam), 2) the pleather vs velour material.

 

Velour material damps sound naturally since it is cloth so sound just gets absorbed in, unlike leather/pleather with which we have to cut out holes to at least partially damp the sound. That means chamber ringing is more or less minimized with velour pads.

 

However the advantage of leather/pleather is that it forms a better seal with the skin so bass and lower midrange conducts better, and also the memory foam only used with HFM pleathers furthers gives a meatier more solid musical timbre. These can never be matched by velour pads.

 

Of course unless you remove all the underside, the jergpads are not going to damp as well as velours, but it'd be close. Chamber ringing masks a lot of detail, air, and soundstage that would otherwise be there, so jergpads present these in spades compared to unmodded pleathers.

 

In the end though, if you dig the tonality of velours, then you would not like the pleathers no matter how you mod them. (the best way to judge tonal balance IMO is to listen to well-recorded vocal music, if the vocals sound more real and natural then the tonality is right, if not then not. Velours don't)

 

Thanks for this post. I'll better compare the two pads tomorrow especially vocals, right now there's people sleeping.

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post #118 of 647
1/21/13 at 7:18am

I've done some listening with the jerpads and it's really difficult for me to compare sounds based on memory, but I think I can safely say that the jergpads do indeed flatten out the midrange somewhat. Female vocals (upper mids) sound a little fuller I think, and some of the edge to sibilance seems to have been shaved off, but not completely. Some of my badly recorded song that exhibit thin female vocals with the velours seem to sound fuller with the jergpads. The rest of the spectrum sounds similar to me, there may be other changes but I can't really detect it.

 

Thanks for this tutorial jerg, you should direct this thread to Hifiman, maybe they could do something about their pads.

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post #119 of 647
1/21/13 at 7:35am

Well, when I get  my pleathers I'll do some comparisons :P

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post #120 of 647
1/21/13 at 10:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

I've done some listening with the jerpads and it's really difficult for me to compare sounds based on memory, but I think I can safely say that the jergpads do indeed flatten out the midrange somewhat. Female vocals (upper mids) sound a little fuller I think, and some of the edge to sibilance seems to have been shaved off, but not completely. Some of my badly recorded song that exhibit thin female vocals with the velours seem to sound fuller with the jergpads. The rest of the spectrum sounds similar to me, there may be other changes but I can't really detect it.

 

Thanks for this tutorial jerg, you should direct this thread to Hifiman, maybe they could do something about their pads.

I ended up going permanently with the pleather dust screen glued on the mounting ring, like you did. The reason being that it softened the treble without messing up the "openness" of the sound (so nothing sounds cupped still), also the dust protection is good I guess, mainly for my HE500. The HE400 diaphragm I don't worry about as much since it seems much tougher.

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