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post #616 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonusAudio View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post

 
I'm also more aware of the sub bass witht he NADs.  It's subtle, but true.  I get the feeling it's the closed can thing.

Subtle!?!?! blink.gif

I heard it is as subtle myself, but this measurement screams otherwise.


When I said subtle, I didn't mean the sub bass was subtle, I meant the difference when comparing with the HE400s was subtle. Neither is it overblown. I really don't enjoy overly bassy headphones. In fact, I don't want spikes anywhere in the frequency range. I tend to lean towards neutrality.

Also, I never take notice of FR graphs. They're interesting to look at but give you only blindly vague indications of how a headphone actually sounds (just as you've proved above).
post #617 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

There's more to measurements than just FR response. The distortion and impulse responses are a bit better on the NADs (as are both square wave responses). 

 

Actually, no. The M-100's distortion remains below the dreaded 90db mark around 500hz down. While above 500hz, both headphones remain fairly below 90db. Both great results, however; the M-100's have less overall distortion.

 

post #618 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonusAudio View Post
 

 

Actually, no. The M-100's distortion remains below the dreaded 90db mark around 500hz down. While above 500hz, both headphones remain fairly below 90db. Both great results, however; the M-100's have less overall distortion.

 

You do realize that those peaks are measurement anomalies that are extremely difficult to avoid? As well, did you see the innerfidelity distortion (that I was referring to) which is an average of 5 measurements instead of just one?

 

But one thing I do agree with you, is with regards to distortion, both perform very well indeed.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 1/24/14 at 8:32pm
post #619 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonusAudio View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 
There's more to measurements than just FR response. The distortion and impulse responses are a bit better on the NADs (as are both square wave responses). 

Actually, no. The M-100's distortion remains below the dreaded 90db mark around 500hz down. While above 500hz, both headphones remain fairly below 90db. Both great results, however; the M-100's have less overall distortion.


Well, they might have less distortion on paper, but which sound the best? I know it's out of place to comment on headphones you've not heard, but from the impressions made about the V-Modas from the pages of this forum, I'd put money on the NADs sounding better. Does anyone own both?
post #620 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post


Well, they might have less distortion on paper, but which sound the best? I know it's out of place to comment on headphones you've not heard, but from the impressions made about the V-Modas from the pages of this forum, I'd put money on the NADs sounding better. Does anyone own both?

I heard and owned both. NAD's have a more refined and clearer sound however, the M-100 are just more fun and engaging to listen to. Both headphones sort of compliment each other. I disliked having to go back and forth between the two for my mood or genre of choice. That came to end when I obtained the AKG K545 which is literally like a love child between the HP50 and M100. It incorporates the M100's fun factor and the HP50's level of clarity of refinement.


Edited by SonusAudio - 1/24/14 at 8:44pm
post #621 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonusAudio View Post
 

 

Subtle!?!?! :blink:

 

I heard it is as subtle myself, but this measurement screams otherwise.

 


May be the spatial nature of the cans design taking away from in-your-face sub/bass ?

post #622 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post


Well, they might have less distortion on paper, but which sound the best? I know it's out of place to comment on headphones you've not heard, but from the impressions made about the V-Modas from the pages of this forum, I'd put money on the NADs sounding better. Does anyone own both?

But they don't have less distortion on paper. Please click on the innerfidelity.com graphs I linked here earlier. Again, Tyll takes measurement for both Headroom and innerfidelity.com, BUT the differences are the latter are an average of 5 different locations on the dummy's head while the former's are a single point measurement. So I tend to go with the innerfidelity.com measurements when both are available (and they show slightly less distortion for the HP50s...but both do a very good job in this regard).


Edited by MacedonianHero - 1/24/14 at 8:46pm
post #623 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonusAudio View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post

Well, they might have less distortion on paper, but which sound the best? I know it's out of place to comment on headphones you've not heard, but from the impressions made about the V-Modas from the pages of this forum, I'd put money on the NADs sounding better. Does anyone own both?
I heard and owned both. NAD's have a more refined and clearer sound however, the M-100 are just more fun and engaging to listen to. Both headphones sort of compliment each other. I disliked having to go back and forth between the two for my mood or genre of choice. That came to end when I obtained the AKG K545 which is literally like a love child between the HP50 and M100.
The fact that you state the NADs as being clearer and more refined yet again proves that graphs and figures can be completely unhelpful when discussing the sound of headphones as you said the NADs have more distortion on paper.

I have such a varied taste in music that I've never expected any one of my cans to do the job for everything. Given the inherent strengths and weaknesses in every pair of headphones, it makes sense for me to have a few pairs. I love my HE400s for that 'fun' experience, yet I couldn't live without my HD598s for listening to small scale slow acoustic, vocal and chamber music. I also couldn't live without my Koss KSC75s for cycling whilst being able to hear the environment around me.

I gotta say though, that if I had to sacrifice all but one pair, I'd keep these NADs and I've had them less than 24 hours.

Anyway, gotta sleep now, it's nearly 5am, it's my birthday and I've got to play trumpet in Shostakovich's 5th symphony tonight before I go out on the razzle with my twin brother!
post #624 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post


Well, they might have less distortion on paper, but which sound the best? I know it's out of place to comment on headphones you've not heard, but from the impressions made about the V-Modas from the pages of this forum, I'd put money on the NADs sounding better. Does anyone own both?

 

I own both. I actually picked up the HP50's to replace the V-Moda M-100s. (And they will, once I put up mine on the FS forums likely sometime next week.) 

 

Everyone has different taste preferences, genre investments, and enjoys different sound signatures - I can't really say which you'll prefer. The HP50s were better to me, and they are certainly the more sonically even headphone of the two. I felt that the mids on the V-Moda's were too recessed and that the bass was overpowering the rest of the spectrum. I was used to my Amperior's more forward mids, and so the V-Moda's recessed midrange messed with my listening enjoyment. This was what drove me to try to replace the M-100s in the first place. 

 

The M-100's are not as detailed or resolving as the HP50's or Amperiors - but that actually played to an advantage on poorly recorded or mixed tracks. (The HP50 is a bit less forgiving of poor source material.) The M-100's treble rolls off in the last octave - you can see it in their frequency response graph vs the HP50s too. The benefit of their lack of upper range energy/extension is that if source material is sibilant, you can still listen to it without extra displeasure or discomfort. It all takes a back seat to the M-100's bass. My genre preferences are rock-centric. I listen to a lot of folk and acoustic guitar driven music; it was really unnatural to hear Cat Stevens "Father & Son" and have the opening bass notes sound like they were coming out of a mid-80s El Camino with spinners. 

 

The HP50 wins on digital imaging and a sense of spaciousness - though the M-100s (especially with XL pads) are no slouch here as far as closed phones go. The HP50 has much better isolation than the M-100s. Again this is a matter of personal preference: if you need to be able to hear in a busy environment/on the go, the M-100s win here. If you want to block out ambient noise and/or listen to music at lower volumes, then the HP50 wins by a mile here. 

 

The M-100 wins on build quality. If you are careful with the wingplates (see the V-Moda owners thread for more on this problem), the build quality is superb. I already had to return my HP50s for a headband defect (which also turned out to be a sound one too). With the new pair, I still feel like I have to be a lot more careful with these than my Beyerdynamic DT250-250s, Amperiors, V-Moda's (both M-100 and M-80s are built very solid). I also really loved the looks of the M-100s as they just plain looked and felt great, especially with the XL pads. Ultimately, that wasn't enough to justify keeping them around.

post #625 of 1325
Great write-up, that's helpful for me as I've been toying with the idea of getting these to replace my M100s. I do love the V-Modas but I'd like to have something more balanced.
post #626 of 1325
The darkness is really starting to get to me. Never heard a darker headphone neither HD 650 nor lcd2 rev1 And it don't seem you can eq when running Spotify or wimp?

Seems it's going to be hp50 for classical and acoustical and eph 100 for modern pop/rock
post #627 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post

The darkness is really starting to get to me. Never heard a darker headphone neither HD 650 nor lcd2 rev1 And it don't seem you can eq when running Spotify or wimp?

Seems it's going to be hp50 for classical and acoustical and eph 100 for modern pop/rock

There's an equalizer for Spotify called Equalify. Google it. Worth it.
post #628 of 1325

thanks will try it. Will see if I can find something to wimp also. I kind of like it´s lossless if nothing else for the placebo ;)

post #629 of 1325

Personally I did not like the Vmoda M-100 at all... The FR is far too uneven, the FR on the NAD's looks right up my street though. According to that graph they should have a lot more bass than the HE400, but it does not always turn out that way.

post #630 of 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

You do realize that those peaks are measurement anomalies that are extremely difficult to avoid? As well, did you see the innerfidelity distortion (that I was referring to) which is an average of 5 measurements instead of just one?

 

But one thing I do agree with you, is with regards to distortion, both perform very well indeed.

 

Say mate, I think you're under a misconception.  Only the FR measurements are done five times and averaged.  All the rest of the IF measurements are done only one time in the central position of the headphones.

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