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What is High End? - Page 9  

post #121 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

So move them out of Summit-Fi as well. Why do you care so much that your headphones aren't in this sub-forum? Does that lessen your enjoyment of them? Lol!

 

Ok so you're trolling, I get it, but let's have Currawong take your advice and purge this forum so the only applicable headphones are Stax SR-009s, HE-90s, High End Sonys etc

 

Not only would that make for a very sparse and uninteresting forum, but it's completely divorced from reality. If you think a $3000 headphone system is a consideration of even a majority of people who post on Head-fi, let alone Joe Public, then I really don't know what to say to you. 

All the same it's obvious that price ISN'T the problem here, as budget electrostats etc are quite acceptable still, where's the consistancy?

 

By the way, my headphones are in this sub-forum under "Related Gear". Doesn't seem unreasonable to discuss them in that case, does it?


Edited by Darkbeat - 1/15/13 at 1:55am
post #122 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan.gheorghe View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

"Made to sing" = great. Ask anyone who has heard the LCD-2 with that stack and some Stuttgarts installed.

 

The LCD-2 does not scale as well as the HD800. Not sure how that can be disputed.

Have you tried them all? Have you established that no other amp/dac can be better than the Schiit ones? Have you established the line of scalability of LCD2 and HD800 and where the lcd2 ends and which is the point hd800 stops? 

 

I for one had them both  and liked the lcd2 more. Can you tell me that hd800 is better in every aspect than lcd2 (for example bass and lower midrange)?

 

I know this hobby is subjective but the rules must be made as less subjective as they could be...and this is faaaaar from objectivity.

 

Didn't you say you had a Burson? Doesn't surprise me that you found the LCD-2 more to your liking. You've basically just put yourself forth as an example for what I was conveying. The LCD-2 takes less work.

post #123 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

 

Didn't you say you had a Burson? Doesn't surprise me that you found the LCD-2 more to your liking. You've basically just put yourself forth as an example for what I was conveying. The LCD-2 takes less work.

The Burson ha-160ds I had was not so good for LCD2 but better than with hd800. The Conductor made a really big difference with lcd2. I have heard both hd800 and lcd2 on better equipment  like m2tech vaughan for example. Is that high end enough for you?

 

Still preferred lcd2. 

 

Still, you didn't answer my question :D

 

And from what I heard the new HDV800 makes the hd800 sing (and hdv800 is less than 2k). And that is comming from a guy who had the Orpheus. 

 

Let's say a good headphone appears on the market. A very good one...everybody loves and and rates it high end though few amp producers have yet mastered the sinergy with it. The amps/sources are very expensive.

 

But one day, a manufacturer comes with a really good amp/dac that "makes them sing" and the price is a lot lower than others. 

 

In your logic...you then...have to take the headphones out of high end category :))


Edited by dan.gheorghe - 1/15/13 at 2:19am
post #124 of 163

Well then, you're expressing your preference. That's cool. Doesn't change the reality that the HD800 scales higher.

post #125 of 163

The HD800's are clearly more amp picky and need a certain kind of amp to work. Unfortunately for some this means paying a lot more money for matching equipment. Just because a headphone such as the HE500 (or the LCD2) is more advanced and able to play well with a much larger range of equipment shouldn't mean that is lesser. Especially when some who own both of these phones prefer the HE500 over the HD800 on very high end equipment.

 

Anyways, the new Sennheiser stats will be coming out soon and the HD800 will take over the 650's place.  

post #126 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by citraian View Post

I was talking about regular, rounded up prices. Not the lowest prices in Europe but have it your way.

 

The idea was that LCD-2 is more expensive than the HD 800.

 

For example, in Romania:

 

LCD-2: 1333.78 USD
HD800: 1187.61 USD
 
I should know since I first wanted HD800 and then I needed to raise some more money in order to buy LCD-2. I like inexpensive sounding headphones HD800 was too good for me. ;)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

^ Congratulations. You paid more for a lesser headphone. biggrin.gif

still short for about $1usd to be high end in europe, anyway just now i may have dig-dug one metric ton of snow... fiuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!! duggehsmile.png

post #127 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Anyways, the new Sennheiser stats will be coming out soon

 

Not likely....

post #128 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

 Anyways, the new HE Audio Jade stats will be coming out soon and the HD800 will take over the 650's place.  

 

Fixed!

 

Hope springs eternal biggrin.gif

post #129 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkbeat View Post

 

Fixed!

 

Hope springs eternal biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

Not likely....

Well you never know whats round the corner... For instance, I was a resident in Summit-fi last week and then... biggrin.gif

post #130 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkbeat View Post

Ok so you're trolling, I get it, but let's have Currawong take your advice and purge this forum so the only applicable headphones are Stax SR-009s, HE-90s, High End Sonys etc

Not only would that make for a very sparse and uninteresting forum, but it's completely divorced from reality. If you think a $3000 headphone system is a consideration of even a majority of people who post on Head-fi, let alone Joe Public, then I really don't know what to say to you. 
All the same it's obvious that price ISN'T the problem here, as budget electrostats etc are quite acceptable still, where's the consistancy?

By the way, my headphones are in this sub-forum under "Related Gear". Doesn't seem unreasonable to discuss them in that case, does it?

I have some very nice $2-3k rigs, and they sound great, but they aren't really Summit-Fi (which is a category I'd place above even the generic term "high-end"), more like upper-mid-fi. For me, Summit starts around $2k for the headphones and then you add the key ancillary components. That's still quite a few headphones, especially when you count the vintage stuff.

Summit-Fi is no-holds-barred, price is no object. We don't scoff or laugh at a person's spending, whether it's $20k cables, $5k tubes, or $50k+ turntables, they're reaching for that peak, no matter the cost.
post #131 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

 

Well you never know whats round the corner... For instance, I was a resident in Summit-fi last week and then... biggrin.gif


don't tell me... now u see it now u don't... been selling my new in box T1 for a month now... the local retail price just keeps falling headlong... may as well be forced to make a free giveaway in the next months!

post #132 of 163

This might be the longest quote I've ever done but here it goes nice and simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan.gheorghe View Post

^^^Exactly : Price of HD800 and of LCD2 . They are both near the same price.

 

So basically your price arguments are not to be considered, as price is not a constant all over the globe.

 

From what I know taxes weren't one of the decisive factors in high end....or is it...?

 

The LCD2 is only expensive due to all the vat/tax whatever import fee's that needs to be added on top of the default USD$995 as it is made in USA. The HD800 is cheaper because it's made in Europe (Germany to be exact) so while it is cheaper in Euro it is also a little bit more expensive to import to the rest of the world. The default currency that goes around here is usually USD so I'm guessing when we talk about high-end and it's price we exclude all those vat/tariff/tax/import fee's, just the base price of the item itself.

 

Lcd2 would shine on a good system as well. I have had them both (hd800 and lcd2) and chose the lcd2. I am not saying it is better than hd800 but it sure does some stuff better.

 

It does indeed shine on a good system but you only get so little to none improvements as you move up the chain with amps (not including a source), again we are just talking about the headphone itself and not a complete setup. Literally the sky is the limit with the HD800's. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roskodan View Post

 

if u think about it, had head-fi been a eu based community than the threshold would be 1000 EUR so no place for the inexpensive sounding lcd-2 in the summit-fi elite expensive sounding club.

 

+1

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

 

The LCD-2 ceiling can be reached sooner and with little expense. That's why it's ubiquitous on this forum. Sky's the limit with the HD800 (comparatively).

 

+1

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

 

The LCD-2 does not scale as well as the HD800. Not sure how that can be disputed.

 

+1

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkbeat View Post

 

The most popularly recommended amp for the LCD-2 is the Violectric V200 which is a $1000 amp. That's $2000 on headphone equipment without buying a source (of which, popular options are V800, Gungnir, M-DAC etc all just under $1000).

 

The problem is that the line in the sand is arbtirary. Sure, for Stax SR-009 owners, a $3000 system isn't much at all. But what about the vintage or budget Stax system owners? Or KOSS ESP owners? These are headphones deemed currently still acceptable for Summit-fi, but cost considerably less.

 

If there is a cost consideration, it isn't the only factor here.

 

Yeah but have you read the title for what belongs in the Summit-Fi section? Other than expensive, TOTL stuff, unique transducer based headphones such as the stats, piezoelectric stuff also belong in the Summit-Fi section. You know what else is even funny, I have a pair Stax Lambda Pro's, old school vintage stats that was TOTL 25-30 years ago vintage grade stuff if you get what I'm saying. They blow the LCD2's out of the water to my ears and I even feel sorry for my LCD2's as it's been in it's coffin for the past 7 months. This truly shows what some $400 stats can do against a pair of overpriced modern orthos. But take this with a grain it's a imo. Not to mention we have a dedicated Stax thread in the summit-fi section to discuss about all Stax gear (mainly flagships though) as the local stat experts always reside in the thread).


Edited by DefQon - 1/15/13 at 3:15am
post #133 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


I have some very nice $2-3k rigs, and they sound great, but they aren't really Summit-Fi (which is a category I'd place above even the generic term "high-end"), more like upper-mid-fi. For me, Summit starts around $2k for the headphones and then you add the key ancillary components. That's still quite a few headphones, especially when you count the vintage stuff.

Summit-Fi is no-holds-barred, price is no object. We don't scoff or laugh at a person's spending, whether it's $20k cables, $5k tubes, or $50k+ turntables, they're reaching for that peak, no matter the cost.

 

I'm OK with your personal definition of Summit-fi and if Currawong wants to adopt it into being Head-fi's definition, that's fine too. It's the arbitrary and inconsistant nature of the current Summit-fi that bothers me, vis, low end electrostats etc are kept in despite being far below that price threshold. In many ways that makes sense too because these are still top grade headphones in terms of performance (as is the LCD2, evidently). There just needs to be consistancy.

 

 

Quote:
 

Yeah but have you read the title for what belongs in the Summit-Fi section? Other than expensive, TOTL stuff, unique transducer based headphones such as the stats, piezoelectric stuff also belong in the Summit-Fi section.

 

The title for what belongs in Summit-fi has as little say as the "Related Gear" section, or the Buyers Guide. Both of these list all the headphones expunged as Summit-fi and High End.

post #134 of 163

Then I think we should go by what Magick Man has described than we should just have another dedicated sub-forum called High-end to keep folks here happy.

post #135 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Then I think we should go by what Magick Man has described than we should just have another dedicated sub-forum called High-end to keep folks here happy.

 

+1

 

Seems like a reasonable compromise.

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