What is High End? - Page 8  

Quote:

Originally Posted by citraian 

The LCD-2 in acually more expensive than HD800 in Europe. LCD-2 is 1500$ and HD800 is 1300$

^^^Exactly : Price of HD800 and of LCD2 . They are both near the same price.

So basically your price arguments are not to be considered, as price is not a constant all over the globe.

From what I know taxes weren't one of the decisive factors in high end....or is it...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefQon 

The HD800 is not the same price as the LCD2's nor in the same league when used in a proper setup. Given that dare I say in my opinion that the HD800 (maybe few others would agree), they are the best dynamic driver based headphones still in production out today. As much as I like the LCD2's (which I own and have heard numerous amount of times), it don't touch the HD800 in a lot of areas. Although both are fairly different beasts.

 

Couldn't agree more

 

 

+ 2 Well said.

Lcd2 would shine on a good system as well. I have had them both (hd800 and lcd2) and chose the lcd2. I am not saying it is better than hd800 but it sure does some stuff better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradoxper 

 

The bottom line for me, there are those who prefer LCD's over SR-007's, for example. So it's not this objective way of 

judging what's high-end or not.

 

Again, it's not about performance, it's about money. I can accept that, if that is indeed the case or argument being made.

Good point paradoxper!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl 

high end amps i'm talking stuff that costs $2k or more just for the amp. so in other words, the lower woo audio amps, schiit audio gear, little dots, umm  and most other sub 1k amps wouldn't fall into the summit-fi category. summit-fi would be upper woo amps, eddie current stuff, and similar (apex, liquid fire, liquid glass, etc)

 

and just before any1 tries to say anything, im just generalizing, not to say other stuff doesn't belong there, nor that it does, just an example of what gear i think belongs there and why the general discussion threads aren't meant to be there. 

 

also theres still some LCD-2 and HD-800 threads on the high end forum, except it seems that the threads still there are buyers looking for the best amps or for something in the 2000-3000+ range to fully max out their setup.

 

I did not reach full lcd2 performance from the start. I first had the LCD2+Burson HA-160ds. I have then upgraded to Burson Conductor, and only then I approached lcd2s full potential. 

My system now is approaching 3400EUR which is about 4538 USD, and lost a lot more money in my journey .

 

So...saying 3+k system is not high end is kind of funny considering the fact that I have compared it side by side with a 9k system and the differences were less than minor.

Bottomline...the discussion broke in 3 categories:

1. the ones saying the price tag is not high end category  
2. the ones saying that the lcd2s sound does not deserve to be in high end
3. the ones saying that lcd2 is easier to get a good rig to make it shine...a too cheaper rig for high end 

1. the price is irrelevant as it is not constant all over the globe as I said in my first part of my post

2. "I don't like lcd2 and I want it out of high end forum..." -> too subjective 

3. Explained above

And again, the perspective is lost. The rule must be applied to all, not just one headphone. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

 

Damn you got me, that has to be the reason.  Now I can sleep happy!.. not that I was losing sleep to begin with over recreational banter over the internet to begin with.  

 

I've heard the LCD-2 costs way more in Europe though, maybe it's high end over there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by citraian 

The LCD-2 in acually more expensive than HD800 in Europe. LCD-2 is 1500$ and HD800 is 1300$

You, Sir, are wrong,

http://www.proaudioitalia.it/pdf/audeze_listino.pdf

https://www.google.hr/search?q=995+eur+in+usd

if u think about it, had head-fi been a eu based community than the threshold would be 1000 EUR so no place for the inexpensive sounding lcd-2 in the summit-fi elite expensive sounding club.

if it doesn't sound expensive, it's not high-end, summit-fi !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by citraian 

The LCD-2 in acually more expensive than HD800 in Europe. LCD-2 is 1500$ and HD800 is 1300$

Yup. Bow down HD800

So that means where I live I'm a Summit fier! Right I can put me posh voice back on, La de da de da ewe darlings stwop all this bwickering its bwinging one down with one of ones narsty headaches... 

The LCD-2 ceiling can be reached sooner and with little expense. That's why it's ubiquitous on this forum. Sky's the limit with the HD800 (comparatively).

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

 

The LCD-2 ceiling can be reached sooner and with little expense. That's why it's ubiquitous on this forum. Sky's the limit with the HD800 (comparatively).

 

Not saying that the hd800s limit isn't harder to reach ...but that is again subjective. What is the quality limit you talk about? What is the price limit? A 3500$ would still be midfi ? :))

For a good lcd2 rig you would need a good DAC (1000$), a good amp (1000$) and a good aftermarket cable(let's say 300$). So basically you get to 3300$ system.

It so happens that a lot of gear that comes to Europe from USA takes the $ and transforms it to EUR which takes you to 3300 EUR (about 4400$).

And yes It happens the other way around. The HD800 costs 1000Eur in Europe and 1500$ in USA. So price arguments are not valid in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

 

The LCD-2 ceiling can be reached sooner and with little expense. That's why it's ubiquitous on this forum. Sky's the limit with the HD800 (comparatively).

Thats true. But I would also add the HD650 into that bracket with the HD800's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan.gheorghe 

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

 

The LCD-2 ceiling can be reached sooner and with little expense. That's why it's ubiquitous on this forum. Sky's the limit with the HD800 (comparatively).

 

Not saying that the hd800s limit isn't harder to reach ...but that is again subjective. What is the quality limit you talk about? What is the price limit? A 3500$ would still be midfi ? :))

For a good lcd2 rig you would need a good DAC (1000$), a good amp (1000$) and a good aftermarket cable(let's say 300$). So basically you get to 3300$ system.

It so happens that a lot of gear that comes to Europe from USA takes the $ and transforms it to EUR which takes you to 3300 EUR (about 4400$).

 

And yes It happens the other way around. The HD800 costs 1000Eur in Europe and 1500$ in USA. So price arguments are not valid in this case.

The LCD-2 can be made to sing with the affordable Schiit Bifrost/Lyr + decent tubes combo. I'm quite content with the system I have now for the HD800, but I suspect extra refinement may be obtained from a better amp, i.e. GS-X v2 or EC S7. I found the Gungnir inadequate for the HD800.

Still peanuts though compared to what some Summit-Fiers have invested. That's why I get what Currawong and Magic Man are saying, and not offended by the "elitism". There are people that go all in, and I wouldn't bat an eyelid if this sub-forum (Summit-Fi) was dedicated to their pursuits. I like ogling at unobtanium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

 

The LCD-2 can be made to sing with the affordable Schiit Bifrost/Lyr + decent tubes combo. I'm quite content with the system I have now for the HD800, but I suspect extra refinement may be obtained from a better amp, i.e. GS-X v2 or EC S7. I found the Gungnir inadequate for the HD800.

Decent is one thing, great is another. I am sure you can find something decent for hd800 too at a similar or not much higher price. If you did not find the combination that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

"Made to sing" = great. Ask anyone who has heard the LCD-2 with that stack and some Stuttgarts installed.

The LCD-2 does not scale as well as the HD800. Not sure how that can be disputed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roskodan 

 

You, Sir, are wrong,

 

http://www.proaudioitalia.it/pdf/audeze_listino.pdf

https://www.google.hr/search?q=995+eur+in+usd

 

if u think about it, had head-fi been a eu based community than the threshold would be 1000 EUR so no place for the inexpensive sounding lcd-2 in the summit-fi elite expensive sounding club.

 

if it doesn't sound expensive, it's not high-end, summit-fi !!!

I was talking about regular, rounded up prices. Not the lowest prices in Europe but have it your way.

The idea was that LCD-2 is more expensive than the HD 800.

For example, in Romania:

^ Congratulations. You paid more for a lesser headphone. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

 

The LCD-2 can be made to sing with the affordable Schiit Bifrost/Lyr + decent tubes combo. I'm quite content with the system I have now for the HD800, but I suspect extra refinement may be obtained from a better amp, i.e. GS-X v2 or EC S7. I found the Gungnir inadequate for the HD800.

 

Still peanuts though compared to what some Summit-Fiers have invested. That's why I get what Currawong and Magic Man are saying, and not offended by the "elitism". There are people that go all in, and I wouldn't bat an eyelid if this sub-forum (Summit-Fi) was dedicated to their pursuits. I like ogling at unobtanium.

The most popularly recommended amp for the LCD-2 is the Violectric V200 which is a $1000 amp. That's $2000 on headphone equipment without buying a source (of which, popular options are V800, Gungnir, M-DAC etc all just under $1000).

The problem is that the line in the sand is arbtirary. Sure, for Stax SR-009 owners, a $3000 system isn't much at all. But what about the vintage or budget Stax system owners? Or KOSS ESP owners? These are headphones deemed currently still acceptable for Summit-fi, but cost considerably less.

If there is a cost consideration, it isn't the only factor here.

So move them out of Summit-Fi as well. Why do you care so much that your headphones aren't in this sub-forum? Does that lessen your enjoyment of them? Lol!

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

^ Congratulations. You paid more for a lesser headphone. 

Now thets the kind of snobberwy we like here on summit fi! Well done thet man

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

"Made to sing" = great. Ask anyone who has heard the LCD-2 with that stack and some Stuttgarts installed.

 

The LCD-2 does not scale as well as the HD800. Not sure how that can be disputed.

Have you tried them all? Have you established that no other amp/dac can be better than the Schiit ones? Have you established the line of scalability of LCD2 and HD800 and where the lcd2 ends and which is the point hd800 stops? 

I for one had them both  and liked the lcd2 more. Can you tell me that hd800 is better in every aspect than lcd2 (for example bass and lower midrange)?

I know this hobby is subjective but the rules must be made as less subjective as they could be...and this is faaaaar from objectivity.