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C&C BH Portable Headphone Amp (80 Hours from a Single Charge!) [Buyer Review] - Page 207

post #3091 of 3289
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCImes View Post

Does anyone have a graph of the output with no filters, and one with the LF switch on?

I love the sound that the LF switch gives and would like to try to EQ similarly when im using my Dx50 without the BH2.

I know it boosts bass and trebble (basically 'loud' on a car stero) but im specifically looking for a graphed curve with how many dB of boost at what frequencies. I've tried various smiley shaped EQ curves, but cant get quite the same sound as the LF switch.

Overall im very happy with this little puppy. a good value for the money.

Thanks


You could try contacting ClieOS who once measured BH2. Personally I don't think the DX50 will replicate it though.

DX50 doesn't have magic pixie dust sprinkled over it before shipping like BH2.

post #3092 of 3289

BH.png

post #3093 of 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
 

BH.png

 


Wow - that's pretty interesting. Thanks. Would you happen to have the graph for the SF switch?

post #3094 of 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynes world View Post
 


Wow - that's pretty interesting. Thanks. Would you happen to have the graph for the SF switch?

 

Sure:

 

BH1.png

 

But please note that unlike simple EQ over frequency range, 3D enhancement can not be accurately measured by RMAA. That's because 3D sound usually involves some kind of crossfeed and RMAA will just mistake it as bad crosstalk. Basically it is equal to forcing a software that measures only in 2D to do a 3D measurement.

post #3095 of 3289

Thats very interesting. Thanks a bunch.

post #3096 of 3289

Thanks. I'm going to have to chew on what your said there. I've typically found the LF to result in a bit too much bass and highs for my liking. But I've always loved the SF switch on though, but hadn't put a finger on exactly how it was changing the sound (although I perceived it as opening up the soundstage somewhat and making it sound more 3D). 

post #3097 of 3289

My new BH2 sounds great with the SE846 (play music via Galaxy S4)

post #3098 of 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by zolom View Post

My new BH2 sounds great with the SE846 (play music via Galaxy S4)

+1. Just got the SE846 and have been listening to it thru the C3/BH2. Makes me forget all the **** I went thru today at work.
post #3099 of 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

Sure:

 

BH1.png

 

But please note that unlike simple EQ over frequency range, 3D enhancement can not be accurately measured by RMAA. That's because 3D sound usually involves some kind of crossfeed and RMAA will just mistake it as bad crosstalk. Basically it is equal to forcing a software that measures only in 2D to do a 3D measurement.

Very interesting, I was asking myself how the SF switch might alter the overall FR and would it result in less tight bass response...

I don't own the C&C, just wondering if I should get one for its soundstage ability.

 

Can I conclude that the elevated bass is to compensate for the lost tightness of bass due too the crossfeed effect?

I assume that the elevation through mids and trebble will even things up and add some air to give the effect of bigger separation in instruments thus bigger soundstage?

 

How are this amp soundstage capabilities without the SF turned on?

How much is the SF switch affect the bass tightness overall?

post #3100 of 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceMajeure View Post
 

Very interesting, I was asking myself how the SF switch might alter the overall FR and would it result in less tight bass response...

I don't own the C&C, just wondering if I should get one for its soundstage ability.

 

Can I conclude that the elevated bass is to compensate for the lost tightness of bass due too the crossfeed effect?

I assume that the elevation through mids and trebble will even things up and add some air to give the effect of bigger separation in instruments thus bigger soundstage?

 

How are this amp soundstage capabilities without the SF turned on?

How much is the SF switch affect the bass tightness overall?

 

Will you still say the same with the below graph?

 

BH2.png

 

Actually they are the same graph, only the two FR curve are centered differently (one on 500Hz while the other on 20Hz). So which do you think is more correct? Well they both are. RMAA has no concept about absolute reference or calibration, which makes it actually fairly bad for novice who don't know how to read it correctly. With simple EQ, you usually can get away with RMAA because the mid is usually the part that remains the same. But as I said previously, 3D EQ is a different story because of crossfeed, where the mid can get blend out. So don't try to read it as it is because the FR curve doesn't tell the whole story in an 3D EQ. It is like try to x-ray a patient then uses it to speculate about the 3D MRI image. It just doesn't work.

post #3101 of 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

Will you still say the same with the below graph?

 

BH2.png

 

Actually they are the same graph, only the two FR curve are centered differently (one on 500Hz while the other on 20Hz). So which do you think is more correct? Well they both are. RMAA has no concept about absolute reference or calibration, which makes it actually fairly bad for novice who don't know how to read it correctly. With simple EQ, you usually can get away with RMAA because the mid is usually the part that remains the same. But as I said previously, 3D EQ is a different story because of crossfeed, where the mid can get blend out. So don't try to read it as it is because the FR curve doesn't tell the whole story in an 3D EQ. It is like try to x-ray a patient then uses it to speculate about the 3D MRI image. It just doesn't work.

I know about the crossfeed and its "undesirable" changes as the delayed crossfeed signal interferes with the original signal and attenuates specific frequencies usually higher one thus making some dips in the whole FR(Comb filter effect) even changing phase,

that's why you are definitely right that this graph is only a part of the story that the SF switch applies, and its wrong to draw conclusions from it only.

 

(though reading this graph the reference center point doesn't matter as it is just the behavior that is interesting, its always relative).

 

Anyway I don't own this amp and I'm just curious to know

What were your impressions (or whomever own it) about its soundstage and instruments separation capabilities without the SF turned on?

How much is the SF switch affect the bass tightness overall, is the effect an actual benefit or more of just a nice gimmick to have?


Edited by ForceMajeure - 2/11/14 at 6:59pm
post #3102 of 3289

Even without the SF turns on, BH2 by itself already has an excellent soundstage. I actually doesn't like the SF (or LF in the matter) as it can be nice sometime but quite often I find it to overly tune the IEM I use, making them sound unnatural. I would have prefer C&C to implement a smaller effect. For example, the 3D Sound effect on iFi Audio iCan is absolutely beautiful.

post #3103 of 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

Even without the SF turns on, BH2 by itself already has an excellent soundstage. I actually doesn't like the SF (or LF in the matter) as it can be nice sometime but quite often I find it to overly tune the IEM I use, making them sound unnatural. I would have prefer C&C to implement a smaller effect. For example, the 3D Sound effect on iFi Audio iCan is absolutely beautiful.

 

Thank you for you reply 

 

what do you mean by saying smaller effect?

Would you have preferred a more subtle effect like less effecting the overall natural sound?

Or by saying smaller you are saying it is making the soundstage too wide/big ?


Edited by ForceMajeure - 2/11/14 at 8:58pm
post #3104 of 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceMajeure View Post
 

 

Thank you for you reply 

 

what do you mean by saying smaller effect?

Would you have preferred a more subtle effect like less effecting the overall natural sound?

Or by saying smaller you are saying it is making the soundstage too wide/big ?

 

Smaller means instead of a 3D effect the size of a football field, it should be a basketball field. Basically less crossfeed and reverberance. You want it to surround you, but not bouncing back and forth from wall to wall.


Edited by ClieOS - 2/11/14 at 9:26pm
post #3105 of 3289

Added the C&C BH2 as an amp to the FiiO E18 DAC;

 

Galaxy S4 OTG USB >> E18 USB DAC input >> E18 Line out >> C&C BH2 Line in >> C&C BH2 earphones out >> Shure SE846

using silver plated cables for audio interconnect and earphones cable.

 

Running Viper4Android (V4A) equalizer on the S4 (still searching for the best settings); C&C BH2 all settings are high.

The C&C BH2 adds a lot of warmth to the E18 while not affecting the soundsatage.

 

The results are really good!!!

 

The overall rig does not score portability wise, as the produced sound quality, but I mainly use it at home. To me the overall price/performance factor is the best.


Edited by zolom - 2/12/14 at 1:22am
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