Listening fatigue - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy4 

It's a little different with speakers... I've been right up front at plenty of concerts with no problem, but listen to headphones at any volume for several hours straight and fatigue kicks in.

Just kidding. I think, though, that any fatigue is more likely the result of having your head and ears squeezed, or your earholes stretched, than anything to do with your actual hearing.

Too loud, too long, is another matter, although it's easy to tolerate even this as the number of people with hearing damage in later years shows.

w

actually, i have a massive fatigue problem that started a month ago (or so). i dont experience loss of detail like you, rather a feeling of pressure in my ear canal - sometimes even pain. i dont listen at high volumes.

i opened up a failed thread about it and the conclusions where basically that its caused either by a spike in the treble response, as suggested by "big shot", or stereo listening as suggested by "puranti".

the solutions, naturally, would be to get crossfeed control (which i have no idea how to do) and to equalize your headphones (which im in the process of doing, but its a long process that can take months). so far i havnt really found any improvement to the fatigue problem. i cant listen to music for more than an hour really. in my experience, if the fatigue is really bad, take a break for a couple of days. i got fatigued after 10-15 minuets at one point, with the pressure/pain continuing throughout the entire day. i went "cold turkey" and didnt listen to music for 48 hours and now i can last for longer (about an hour, as mentioned above)

btw, iv noticed that using speakers, though not eliminating the problem, is less fatiguing.

can anyone suggest a simple way to control crosfeed? i understand this will have a negative impact on sq? is there a software solution or do i have to buy hardware?

If you use foobar2000, you could try foo_dsp_xfeed or bs2b. There are also a couple of VST plugins, but those are a bit harder to set up.

Rockbox (a firmware for portable players, like the sansa clip+) also has a simple crossfeed built-in.

A good crossfeed will be transparent but the sound will not be the same of course.

Basically the two crossfeed I found to be the better are BS2B and head-fit with sheppi (the second combo is the most natural I've heard).

You can download them as dsp for foobar2000 for windows, Qmmp for other OS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puranti 

A good crossfeed will be transparent but the sound will not be the same of course.

Basically the two crossfeed I found to be the better are BS2B and head-fit with sheppi (the second combo is the most natural I've heard).

You can download them as dsp for foobar2000 for windows, Qmmp for other OS.

why will it not be the same? theres no "surround", but all in all, why would there by a difference? i jut turned on the plugin xnor suggested and the first thing i noticed was the volume dropping sharply. other than that - things do sound wierd. i dont understand why though...

edit: i think i figured out why it sounds odd. i put on a hol baumann track that has a distinct melody that previously danced from one ear to the other (which is why i chose it), and now with the crossfeed on, instead of moving from one ear to the other, it drops and rises in volume - which is what sounds odd, although i may just be imagining.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor 

If you use foobar2000, you could try foo_dsp_xfeed or bs2b. There are also a couple of VST plugins, but those are a bit harder to set up.

 

Rockbox (a firmware for portable players, like the sansa clip+) also has a simple crossfeed built-in.

thanks very much. i couldnt find the plugin on the foobar site, so i googled it and the first link i found was a post you made in a different forum XD. im using the xfeed dsp.

the plugin comes with crossfeed options: ILD low, ILD high, ITD. and eq options: volume and low shelf. all of them with a bar.

the only one i can understand is volume... is there any need to play around with these settings?

edit: after i installed the plugin, i went to move it to the "active dsp" list and saw theres also a "crossfade" option. whats this? because when i tried using it (view - dsp - crossfader) foobar crashed...

Playing around a bit makes sense, I just wouldn't go crazy with the sliders but stay near the defaults.

ILD describes how much sound from one speaker reaches the other ear.

The level difference of treble (ILD high) is normally much higher (up to ~20 dB) than bass/mids (down to ~1 dB) because of the head shadow.

ITD is the time difference between the ears. Lower means the speakers are closer to each other or that your head is smaller. Higher means the speakers are further apart or that your head is bigger.

The low-shelf EQ lets you boost (+) or cut (-) bass/mids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamlr 

 

why will it not be the same? theres no "surround", but all in all, why would there by a difference? i jut turned on the plugin xnor suggested and the first thing i noticed was the volume dropping sharply. other than that - things do sound wierd. i dont understand why though...

 

edit: i think i figured out why it sounds odd. i put on a hol baumann track that has a distinct melody that previously danced from one ear to the other (which is why i chose it), and now with the crossfeed on, instead of moving from one ear to the other, it drops and rises in volume - which is what sounds odd, although i may just be imagining.

There is a difference because the sound signal is processed in a different manner.

Basically, you should hear the soundstage going to the center, this can feel not right but that's the way the crossfeed works, that's why I use BS2B or head-fit, I like it when it's subtle but noticeable. Hence if you hear a volume loss that"s okay, just turn up the volume but if it sounds way too weird for you then change the settings.

Crossfade just fades out the currently playing song at the end and fades in the next song.

What kind of system is BS2B trying to simulate with its crossfeed, just stereo? Does it attempt to make it sound like it's coming from in front of you or it it like a weird stereo setup that is to the right and left of you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakibaki 

 

Just kidding. I think, though, that any fatigue is more likely the result of having your head and ears squeezed, or your earholes stretched, than anything to do with your actual hearing.

 

Too loud, too long, is another matter, although it's easy to tolerate even this as the number of people with hearing damage in later years shows.

 

w

I agree with this for the most part. While I'm not bothered by my headphones clamp, fatigue for me is due to the physical properties of headphones. And no amount of crossfeed or equalization can change that, although crossfeed does help with recordings that have extreme panning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamlr 
can anyone suggest a simple way to control crosfeed? i understand this will have a negative impact on sq? is there a software solution or do i have to buy hardware?

As mentioned, foobar has a built in crossfeed (foo_dsp_crossfeed 1.1.1). I use the following settings when I'm at work (my stepdance does not have built in crossfeed) which I find just takes the edge off of the "dental floss between the ears" feeling without killing the bass response: Shelf cutoff 715 Hz, Shelf gain -9db, Mixer level 25%.

At home I have a Corda Jazz which has Meier crossfeed built in.

The most recent release of Roxkbox (3.1.2) has two types of crossfeed, a more flexible version where you set various levels (cooperpwc once had a good post on that IIRC) and now an electronic implementation of Meier crossfeed, which I would recommend as it affects the music much less in my experience.

Good Luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy4 

What kind of system is BS2B trying to simulate with its crossfeed, just stereo? Does it attempt to make it sound like it's coming from in front of you or it it like a weird stereo setup that is to the right and left of you?

It tries to emulate stereophony, the sound that speakers deliver to your ears, hence it tries to make it sound like if you were listening to speakers.

For me brightness, graininess and hardness can induce fatigue as well as boomy bass.

Pull the low-shelf slider to the left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor 

Playing around a bit makes sense, I just wouldn't go crazy with the sliders but stay near the defaults.

 

ILD describes how much sound from one speaker reaches the other ear.

The level difference of treble (ILD high) is normally much higher (up to ~20 dB) than bass/mids (down to ~1 dB) because of the head shadow.

 

ITD is the time difference between the ears. Lower means the speakers are closer to each other or that your head is smaller. Higher means the speakers are further apart or that your head is bigger.

 

The low-shelf EQ lets you boost (+) or cut (-) bass/mids.

thank you very much

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puranti 

There is a difference because the sound signal is processed in a different manner.

Basically, you should hear the soundstage going to the center, this can feel not right but that's the way the crossfeed works, that's why I use BS2B or head-fit, I like it when it's subtle but noticeable. Hence if you hear a volume loss that"s okay, just turn up the volume but if it sounds way too weird for you then change the settings.

thank you too. if i decide xfeed too weird, ill try out bs2b instead. is it also foobar compatible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor 

Crossfade just fades out the currently playing song at the end and fades in the next song.

ok thanks. guess i wont be needing that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avi 

 

As mentioned, foobar has a built in crossfeed (foo_dsp_crossfeed 1.1.1). I use the following settings when I'm at work (my stepdance does not have built in crossfeed) which I find just takes the edge off of the "dental floss between the ears" feeling without killing the bass response: Shelf cutoff 715 Hz, Shelf gain -9db, Mixer level 25%.

 

At home I have a Corda Jazz which has Meier crossfeed built in.

 

The most recent release of Roxkbox (3.1.2) has two types of crossfeed, a more flexible version where you set various levels (cooperpwc once had a good post on that IIRC) and now an electronic implementation of Meier crossfeed, which I would recommend as it affects the music much less in my experience.

 

Good Luck!

cheers, ill try out those settings too