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APEX PINNACLE OR TWO OF THESE : ECBA & DNA STRATUS/ CAVALLI LG/ RSA DARK STAR - Page 7  

post #91 of 116

it's not really surprising at all to me to see Wayne say something about your comments. Hundreds of people listened to that rig that weekend and no one to my knowledge said anything remotely resembling the center image or your other issues. In fact that amp has won best in show at RMAF on at least one occasion and garnered several great reviews. I think it's great that you showed up and listened a ton of rigs but you may have missed the best part of the meets, the community.  

 

I know I'll likely take crap from several people for my post and frankly I don't care. I just think at some point people need to stand up for a vendor that has always been there for this community pretty much from day one.

 

Here your write up pay close attention to the last line, I call BS on your post above and your assertion that Wayne misrepresented your comments. 

 

12) Meridian 808.3, Apex Pinnacle (Balanced), Audeze LCD2 quickly then HD800
Not becoming a fan of the LCD2. Stage is just too separate. Sound is natural but the separation just kills the imagery. HD800 - Sound is similar to the Peak but less effort. Some smear in high mids on Pinnacle with electronic music. Detail is very nice. Again bass is deep but not enough volume to be satisfying. Not enough punch on this setup for sure. Orchestral has no bass impact. It's terrible. Peak sounded better. Imaging is not as good. Not as easy to see instruments. Still nice. Tonality is nice. Cymbals not bad but cringe inducing occasionally.

I found nothing good about the Pinnacle with any headphone I tried it with. Probably the most expensive item there I just did not like at all. The notes speak for themselves.

post #92 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post



Regaring it possibly being the Meridian, I gave the player the benefit of the doubt since I had heard other, cheaper, Meridian players around the room that did not display this error. I was familiar with the headphones, so the amp is all that was left that could be the cause.

 

For example Sennheiser makes a bunch of great headphones, is it ok to assume every Sennheiser is fantastic?

 

I would buy an HD700 sight unheard if that were the case.

post #93 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp11801 View Post

it's not really surprising at all to me to see Wayne say something about your comments. Hundreds of people listened to that rig that weekend and no one to my knowledge said anything remotely resembling the center image or your other issues. In fact that amp has won best in show at RMAF on at least one occasion and garnered several great reviews. I think it's great that you showed up and listened a ton of rigs but you may have missed the best part of the meets, the community.  

I know I'll likely take crap from several people for my post and frankly I don't care. I just think at some point people need to stand up for a vendor that has always been there for this community pretty much from day one.

Here your write up pay close attention to the last line, I call BS on your post above and your assertion that Wayne misrepresented your comments. 

12) Meridian 808.3, Apex Pinnacle (Balanced), Audeze LCD2 quickly then HD800


Not becoming a fan of the LCD2. Stage is just too separate. Sound is natural but the separation just kills the imagery. HD800 - Sound is similar to the Peak but less effort. Some smear in high mids on Pinnacle with electronic music. Detail is very nice. Again bass is deep but not enough volume to be satisfying. Not enough punch on this setup for sure. Orchestral has no bass impact. It's terrible. Peak sounded better. Imaging is not as good. Not as easy to see instruments. Still nice. Tonality is nice. Cymbals not bad but cringe inducing occasionally.




I found nothing good about the Pinnacle with any headphone I tried it with. Probably the most expensive item there I just did not like at all. The notes speak for themselves.
I don't see how you get from my comments to Wayne's version.

Also, my purpose for being there was not community, but to expose myself to gear I hadn't heard. Mission accomplished. It seemed the atmosphere was more impersonal trade show than friendly casual meet anyways. I'm very different at meets I've been to otherwise.

Fair enough post, not sure why you would take crap for it.
post #94 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post


First of all, this is surprising behavior from a moderator, but I guess you didn't want him to be the only one to embarrass himself.
It was my first big show and I didn't know how a request to change a rig would be taken. Taking a headphone to another table is one thing, disassembling a rig is another. Plus, this being more of a trade show and not a casual meet, I didn't want to take their time away from people who might be looking to buy.
The rig they display is their responsibility. If they lay out a rig with an obvious flaw, that is what I expect their gear to sound like.
Regaring it possibly being the Meridian, I gave the player the benefit of the doubt since I had heard other, cheaper, Meridian players around the room that did not display this error. I was familiar with the headphones, so the amp is all that was left that could be the cause.
I had not heard of the pinnacle before RMAF and didn't know the price or that it had been well reviewed before. I actually thought the Peak was 10,000 not the Pinnacle until after the show when I was looking things up. And since you didn't actually read my comments, I'll tell you that your description is actually completely opposite of what I said. The overall sound was good, but the void in the center was so distracting I couldn't give a proper impression of the rest of the attributes.
I'm still waiting for somene to point out all these Pinnacle threads I've posted in. So far this is the only time beyond my big thread I've even discussed it.

First of all, I've been an inactive moderator for several years now, mostly I suppose because the place eventually got overrun by newbie fools who had never been to a single meet before, yet somehow had the audacity to think they could provide meaningful reviews of 69 rigs, and that this would somehow give them credibility and "followers" but then again, I remember the days here at Head-Fi before Twitter.  At one point, I was a very active member and moderator at Head-Fi and I'll never completely give up in believing in this place.  I believe, if nothing else, that it provides a forum where people can express their opinions, no matter how well or ill informed they might be.  Free speech, rah rah!  But don't yell "fire" for no apparent reason in a crowded movie theater and expect nobody to call you on it.  I also believe that because of Head-Fi's ever growing readership, its a place that influences the purchasing decisions of countless people, many of whom may never even sign up as members or post a single word.  So it has value, especially to a long-time sponsor and friend (to Head-Fi generally, and to myself personally) like Todd who has done a more for this place than any other single vendor I can think of.  So sorry if I wasn't all nicey nicey and friendly moderatory with you.  My bad.

 

Maybe if the rig sounded so bad and you were too timid to ask Todd if it sounded right to him, you could have asked someone else to have a listen.  Were other people reacting to it in the same way that you were?  Usually if something sounds terribly wrong, you won't be the only person in the room coming away with that impression, unless of course, you have tin ears.  

If the overall sound was good, why would you say this was one of the worst amps you've ever heard?

 

If you gave the Meridian player the benefit of the doubt because you had heard other, cheaper, Meridian players in that same room that did not display that error, then why wouldn't you give the Pinnacle the benefit of the doubt since you've also said that you liked all of the rest of the (cheaper) amps that Todd had on display?  

 

post #95 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarknightDK View Post

Wait a minute. At the cost of a pinnacle, wouldn't a TOTL stax setup (eg. 009 and BHSE) best any dynamic setup available? This is the believe I have read from the numerous threads here.
So the question is, if I've got money to blow, should I just go for a stax setup or invest upwards for amps driving dynamic cans? Which would be closer to the end game rig?

Even if the stax setup is the endgame, I'd never give up the variety of superb-sounding dynamics I can choose from with the Pinnacle.

My favorite thing about the headphone world is the variety factor. It's the spice of life.

post #96 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp11801 View Post

it's not really surprising at all to me to see Wayne say something about your comments. Hundreds of people listened to that rig that weekend and no one to my knowledge said anything remotely resembling the center image or your other issues. In fact that amp has won best in show at RMAF on at least one occasion and garnered several great reviews. I think it's great that you showed up and listened a ton of rigs but you may have missed the best part of the meets, the community.  

 

I know I'll likely take crap from several people for my post and frankly I don't care. I just think at some point people need to stand up for a vendor that has always been there for this community pretty much from day one.

 

Here your write up pay close attention to the last line, I call BS on your post above and your assertion that Wayne misrepresented your comments. 

 

( Maxvla) 

12) Meridian 808.3, Apex Pinnacle (Balanced), Audeze LCD2 quickly then HD800

Not becoming a fan of the LCD2. Stage is just too separate. Sound is natural but the separation just kills the imagery. HD800 - Sound is similar to the Peak but less effort. Some smear in high mids on Pinnacle with electronic music. Detail is very nice. Again bass is deep but not enough volume to be satisfying. Not enough punch on this setup for sure. Orchestral has no bass impact. It's terrible. Peak sounded better. Imaging is not as good. Not as easy to see instruments. Still nice. Tonality is nice. Cymbals not bad but cringe inducing occasionally.

I found nothing good about the Pinnacle with any headphone I tried it with. Probably the most expensive item there I just did not like at all. The notes speak for themselves.

 

pppfffttt.

 

I can assure everyone the Pinnacle has no problem with bass.  Its texture is great and its porportion is great.

I hear great separation and articulation w/ my LCD2 but detected no smear.  That doesnt even make sense.

 

Today I dug out my old unbalanced HD650s today to try.  They sound terrific.  


Edited by SR-71Panorama - 1/5/13 at 10:54am
post #97 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla (originally) View Post

I found nothing good about the Pinnacle with any headphone I tried it with. Probably the most expensive item there I just did not like at all. The notes speak for themselves.

 

This is interesting, given this...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

I had not heard of the pinnacle before RMAF and didn't know the price or that it had been well reviewed before. I actually thought the Peak was 10,000 not the Pinnacle until after the show when I was looking things up. And since you didn't actually read my comments...

 

I'm confused.  Which is it?  You didn't know the price of the Pinnacle and thought the Peak was the one that cost $10,000?  Or you thought that the Pinnacle was "probably the most expensive item there..." (other than the Peak, presumably).  Either you knew you were listening to an expensive, top of the line, amp (and thus would have high expectations of it sounding good, and thus would have been surprised when it didn't) or you just thought you were listening to any old amp, and thus figured it was the problem.


Edited by Wmcmanus - 1/5/13 at 10:57am
post #98 of 116

As you can see from my earlier posts, I think the Pinnacle I own is awesome and stands alone. But I can relate the the HD800 comments.

The HD800 is an acid test and it's very easy to make it sound fatiguing, strange, and full of shrunken images. 

Honestly, even with a Pinnacle, HD800s take lots of upstream support, including the music itself. 

I had to fool with cables/tubes to make the HD800s sound nice on the Pinnacle, and even so I prefer my other phones 

(Hifiman,Audeze,Fostex, even Grado) with the Pinnacle. The HD800s are a strange beast and I would not be surprised if the listener

had some issues with the sound he heard at the show, and I understand and respect and believe the poster with the negative opinion.

Even so, I 100% recommend w/o hesitation the Pinnace to anyone looking for the ultimate dynamic headphone amp.

Again, try those HE500s with it...

FWIW, I love my EMM XDS1 with the Pinnacle.


Edited by rgs9200m - 1/5/13 at 11:04am
post #99 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post

 

The Orpheus? It's unobtainium, my friend...


http://www.hifistallet.se/hifi/visningsexemplar/sennheiser-oprheus-hev-90

 

Just 30000€...

And it's NOS too.. Never used. Only used for exposition.

 

 

;)

post #100 of 116
Wrong thread.
Edited by jacobgolden - 1/5/13 at 11:41am
post #101 of 116
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobgolden View Post

Wrong thread.

ME TOO...

post #102 of 116
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValentinHogea View Post


http://www.hifistallet.se/hifi/visningsexemplar/sennheiser-oprheus-hev-90

 

Just 30000€...

And it's NOS too.. Never used. Only used for exposition.

 

 

;)

Can you believe it. The guy had the audacity to reject my offer of 30 post-dated cheques of 1000€ per month..angry_face.gif...wink_face.gif

post #103 of 116

Some of the things I remember Maxvla saying over the past year:

 

- The TH900 isn't bassy

- The Stax O2 mk1 is bright

- The HD800 isn't

 

There's a reason he's the last person on all of HF I listen to about SQ: we have tremendously different hearing. 

 

Also, putting links to all your past impressions in your sig is super corny and just makes it seem like you're begging for people to listen to what you think lol.

 

That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with Max posting his opinions.  People have to learn which posters to put more blind faith into, is all.

post #104 of 116

His very first comment wasn't about what he said, it's how he said it  - very condescending...

 

He said he didn't want to bother Todd, but didn't have an issue pointing out to Alex that there was something wrong with the Oppo BDP-95.

post #105 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus View Post

First of all, I've been an inactive moderator for several years now, mostly I suppose because the place eventually got overrun by newbie fools who had never been to a single meet before, yet somehow had the audacity to think they could provide meaningful reviews of 69 rigs, and that this would somehow give them credibility and "followers" but then again, I remember the days here at Head-Fi before Twitter.  At one point, I was a very active member and moderator at Head-Fi and I'll never completely give up in believing in this place.  I believe, if nothing else, that it provides a forum where people can express their opinions, no matter how well or ill informed they might be.  Free speech, rah rah!  But don't yell "fire" for no apparent reason in a crowded movie theater and expect nobody to call you on it.  I also believe that because of Head-Fi's ever growing readership, its a place that influences the purchasing decisions of countless people, many of whom may never even sign up as members or post a single word.  So it has value, especially to a long-time sponsor and friend (to Head-Fi generally, and to myself personally) like Todd who has done a more for this place than any other single vendor I can think of.  So sorry if I wasn't all nicey nicey and friendly moderatory with you.  My bad.

Maybe if the rig sounded so bad and you were too timid to ask Todd if it sounded right to him, you could have asked someone else to have a listen.  Were other people reacting to it in the same way that you were?  Usually if something sounds terribly wrong, you won't be the only person in the room coming away with that impression, unless of course, you have tin ears.  


If the overall sound was good, why would you say this was one of the worst amps you've ever heard?

If you gave the Meridian player the benefit of the doubt because you had heard other, cheaper, Meridian players in that same room that did not display that error, then why wouldn't you give the Pinnacle the benefit of the doubt since you've also said that you liked all of the rest of the (cheaper) amps that Todd had on display?  


 
By newbie fools who had never been to a meet before, I'm guessing you aren't referring to me, because I had. And I don't expect you to be 'friendly moderatory', just fair and considerate.

I didn't know anyone at the show, so I had no one to ask. Being at a speaker convention, I didn't know if the person next to me was a headphone enthusiast or not. That makes a big difference to me because most speaker enthusiasts accept that there will not be a good center with headphones (and generally they are right) so they won't really be listening for it the way I would.

It was the worst because it was the antithesis of what is most important to me, center focus.

I can't give you a solid answer on why I pegged the Pinnacle as the problem. It was a combination of factors, that, whether right or wrong, led to that conclusion. Todd sells many products that others sell, but his amps are his own. I went to the table to listen to the amp. My focus was on it. Meridian is a big time source manufacturer that I assume to have computerized testing and assembly, good QC and, having heard the others, proper voicing/staging. Small hifi shops have sometimes made odd sounding products for their top of the line, sometimes to suit the owners wants, sometimes just to be different. I thought this was how Todd wanted this amp to sound. As I mentioned before, speaker enthusiasts tend to expect poor center on headphones, and this being a speaker show, perhaps he was aiming to get some sales to the speaker guys that might roam in, by going after audio quality in other ways, leaving the stage separated as a speaker guy might expect.

Apologies for the late reply. I was busy at work all day.
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