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*Comparison and Review* Magni/Modi vs O2/ODAC - Page 15

post #211 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

Added distortion in the mythical "1000 dollar amp[]" aside, that exactly right. If the O2 is transparent, adding $850 of parts and profit won't yield better sound because it can't.

Well, it could add "better sound" because perfectly flat, transparent sound is not necessarily what everyone really likes. If it was all about perfect transparency, tube amps would not be popular wink.gif

But you are right. If it's already transparent, you can't make it more transparent with additional parts smily_headphones1.gif
post #212 of 424

US Audio....

 

You are so correct....it was meant as slightly "funny" response....lol....in good humor...

 

I have some SACD stuff but bought it to see for myself how much better etc this stuff is compared to good ole 2 ch 44.1/16 bits etc..

 

Needless to say, but I will say it anyway! 

 


"Except for the sounstage...not really any better to me"....just different depending how the SACD was recorded and mastered etc...

 

 

Alex

post #213 of 424
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

Added distortion in the mythical "1000 dollar amp[]" aside, that exactly right. If the O2 is transparent, adding $850 of parts and profit won't yield better sound because it can't.

  

 

This is all assuming that the measurements provided for the amps are actually meaningful to music reproduction.  In this case, the measurements give us a shallow look to see if there's anything glaringly wrong with the amps, but they can't give you actual performance characteristics when fed complex music-- unless of course, your hobby is to sit at your desk and listen to two-tone sinewaves all day.  No discriminating here.

post #214 of 424

Most of the specs that the designer has listed can have a affect on "musical reproduction" .....

 

Alex

post #215 of 424

cel4145...

 

There are many tube amps that are not transparent.....far from it...and some I had and are now sold.

 

Alex

post #216 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Well, it could add "better sound" because perfectly flat, transparent sound is not necessarily what everyone really likes. If it was all about perfect transparency, tube amps would not be popular wink.gif

But you are right. If it's already transparent, you can't make it more transparent with additional parts smily_headphones1.gif

Which kinda sums up the different philosophies between NwAv/Schiit.

 

The O2 was designed for the highest possible transparency with a certain budget in mind. First he defined what he wanted to achieve, then he tried different designs, parts etc. until he reached the goal.

Schiit on the other hand: "Sure, we could throw an opamp in there and get better numbers, but we aren’t just about the numbers here. We believe different amps sound, well, different, and we made our design decisions based on both measurements and listening tests."

 

That's okay. What I cannot stand is the "overall feedback is bad", "class a results in superb performance", "fully discrete designs are better" attitude. Not any of these points is an indicator of high fidelity, quite the contrary.

 

Violectric says: "Discrete amplifiers (designed with transistors) are very popular in High-End audio design also for preamplifier stages. This is often marketed as an optimization measure, but the partially exorbitant extra expenses are of course to be paid by the customer. But an op-amp consists of tranistors as well...
Moreover, its structure has the advantage of thermal coupling between its internal components."

 

Other than output power, I don't think the Schiit stack would win the numbers game. The question is why they are so fixated on the points mentioned above..

post #217 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

cel4145...

There are many tube amps that are not transparent.....far from it...and some I had and are now sold.

Alex

You missed the point smily_headphones1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

If it was all about perfect transparency, tube amps would not be popular wink.gif
post #218 of 424

cel 4145...

 

roger, over and out...mybad....

 

Agree!!

 

Alex....now where is that box of tubes gone off to??

 

LOL

post #219 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

cel 4145...

roger, over and out...mybad....

Agree!!

Alex....now where is that box of tubes gone off to??

LOL

I love my Little Dot I+ tube amp. Definitely not transparent! biggrin.gif
post #220 of 424

I posted my thoughts on the O2 + ODAC on my site, musical musings.

 

Short version: I really, really like them. L3000.gif

post #221 of 424

I say the specs don't tell the whole story its all in how it sounds to you.

post #222 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Which kinda sums up the different philosophies between NwAv/Schiit.

 

The O2 was designed for the highest possible transparency with a certain budget in mind. First he defined what he wanted to achieve, then he tried different designs, parts etc. until he reached the goal.

Schiit on the other hand: "Sure, we could throw an opamp in there and get better numbers, but we aren’t just about the numbers here. We believe different amps sound, well, different, and we made our design decisions based on both measurements and listening tests."

 

That's okay. What I cannot stand is the "overall feedback is bad", "class a results in superb performance", "fully discrete designs are better" attitude. Not any of these points is an indicator of high fidelity, quite the contrary.

 

Violectric says: "Discrete amplifiers (designed with transistors) are very popular in High-End audio design also for preamplifier stages. This is often marketed as an optimization measure, but the partially exorbitant extra expenses are of course to be paid by the customer. But an op-amp consists of tranistors as well...
Moreover, its structure has the advantage of thermal coupling between its internal components."

 

Other than output power, I don't think the Schiit stack would win the numbers game. The question is why they are so fixated on the points mentioned above..

 

I'm just speculating here, but a lot of companies tend to hide the core and focus on other stuff (Design/Looks/Feel/Experience etc), because it helps them achieve the 'reality distortion field' effect. 

Take a look at this paper : http://dx.doi.org/10.1086/667782

Turns out more knowledge can be a turn off for a lot of customers.

post #223 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame21x View Post

I posted my thoughts on the O2 + ODAC on my site, musical musings.

 

Short version: I really, really like them. L3000.gif


Hey, I read the review, good work!

But, for the sake of the enthusiasts out there, maybe you can include the DIY link in the review as well. The O2 comes to ~$100 if one can solder the components, so the DIYers can save some dough!

post #224 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Which kinda sums up the different philosophies between NwAv/Schiit.

 

The O2 was designed for the highest possible transparency with a certain budget in mind. First he defined what he wanted to achieve, then he tried different designs, parts etc. until he reached the goal.

Schiit on the other hand: "Sure, we could throw an opamp in there and get better numbers, but we aren’t just about the numbers here. We believe different amps sound, well, different, and we made our design decisions based on both measurements and listening tests."

 

That's okay. What I cannot stand is the "overall feedback is bad", "class a results in superb performance", "fully discrete designs are better" attitude. Not any of these points is an indicator of high fidelity, quite the contrary.

 

Violectric says: "Discrete amplifiers (designed with transistors) are very popular in High-End audio design also for preamplifier stages. This is often marketed as an optimization measure, but the partially exorbitant extra expenses are of course to be paid by the customer. But an op-amp consists of tranistors as well...
Moreover, its structure has the advantage of thermal coupling between its internal components."

 

Other than output power, I don't think the Schiit stack would win the numbers game. The question is why they are so fixated on the points mentioned above..

I think you know why different approaches are so energetically defended - money.

 

There is not a great deal of difference, to the end user, between a $400 dollar computer and a $3,000 dollar computer. Good hardware is practically a standard these days, thanks to innovation. Of course, the $3,000 computer is the one to have for some applications, but otherwise, whatever.

 

Audio is pretty much a commodity these days. The higher end I go, the more I realize you get less and less for your dollar. Or it could be that myths are good for business, so they persist. Most of these companies know that if standards compliance became important, they would all be in deep doo doo for marketing overpriced crap.

post #225 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

I think you know why different approaches are so energetically defended - money.

 

There is not a great deal of difference, to the end user, between a $400 dollar computer and a $3,000 dollar computer. Good hardware is practically a standard these days, thanks to innovation. Of course, the $3,000 computer is the one to have for some applications, but otherwise, whatever.

 

Audio is pretty much a commodity these days. The higher end I go, the more I realize you get less and less for your dollar. Or it could be that myths are good for business, so they persist. Most of these companies know that if standards compliance became important, they would all be in deep doo doo for marketing overpriced crap.


There's no price for exclusivity, and certainly a good way to make money.

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