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*Comparison and Review* Magni/Modi vs O2/ODAC - Page 13

post #181 of 427

Defiant's explanation is not practical.
 

No 24 bit DAC achieves 24 bit performance. High end DACs maybe get close to 20, but as posted before, some 24 bit DACs do not even perform better than good 16 bit DACs.

 

He also assumes that 25% volume corresponds to 12 dB attenuation, but on my system 25% is over 20 dB of attenuation (~3.4 bits). The system volume control percentage is not the gain.

post #182 of 427

and adaptive dacs can outperform asynchronous dacs!

 

Alex

post #183 of 427

If the "Objective Combo" and "The Schiit Stack" would be the same price, wich one should i get for a pair of headphones like the Q701?

post #184 of 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren19 View Post

If the "Objective Combo" and "The Schiit Stack" would be the same price, wich one should i get for a pair of headphones like the Q701?

tdockweiler has reported pretty good sound with the Schiit Stack and Q 701.

From my own experience the Objective Combo works really well with a new K 701.

 

From the looks of things, the two are nearly identical in sound both objectively and subjectively. The problems I've read about the Schiit Stack make me lean towards the Objective Combo though.

post #185 of 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren19 View Post

If the "Objective Combo" and "The Schiit Stack" would be the same price, wich one should i get for a pair of headphones like the Q701?


Objective ofcourse. I doubt any amp has been tested as thoroughly as the O2.

post #186 of 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren19 View Post

If the "Objective Combo" and "The Schiit Stack" would be the same price, wich one should i get for a pair of headphones like the Q701?


Objective ofcourse. I doubt any amp has been tested as thoroughly as the O2.

Yeah, although the Schiit Stack has had relatively positive findings so far, I would place money on the Objective Combo because of its reputation, availability, customisability, and thorough findings/reviews/anecdotes/testimonies.

post #187 of 427

The O2 design has been tested and measured thoroughly and blind a/b puts them close enough together. So unless you like the ergonomics of the Schiit stuff much better I'd go O2/ODAC.

post #188 of 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshen View Post

The O2 design has been tested and measured thoroughly and blind a/b puts them close enough together. So unless you like the ergonomics of the Schiit stuff much better I'd go O2/ODAC.


IDK, but I can't let go of the feeling that its a bit vindictive, launching an O2 competitor just to make a statement. But thats just my hunch.

post #189 of 427
Thread Starter 

Whose to assume the Schiit stack wasn't tested vigorously?  It's been in the making for a while now at Schiit.

 

The Schiit stack has also been tested and measured thoroughly.  For direct measurement comparisons, check out Changstar. 

 

Speaking of blind tests, they have those too, directly comparing the Schiit stack vs Objective combo.

post #190 of 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Whose to assume the Schiit stack wasn't tested vigorously?  It's been in the making for a while now at Schiit.

 

The Schiit stack has also been tested and measured thoroughly.  For direct measurement comparisons, check out Changstar. 

 

Speaking of blind tests, they have those too, directly comparing the Schiit stack vs Objective combo.


I don't know what goes on behind closed doors. As of now, Schiit doesn't publish comprehensive measurements about any of their products.

About the test and measurements at Changstar, its been mentioned before. Its only a few measurements, again, not comprehensive. Take a look at the O2 designer's blog, and the measurements he's published, or to be more professional, take a look at the Benchmark Audio's manual for DAC1/DAC2 and the performance graphs inside. Just goes to show the confidence they have in their products.

post #191 of 427

but O2/ODAC is open source, seems like the designer wanted it to be known how to make a good amp

 

schiit seems to be more secretive in keeping their designs known, patent issues maybe, with the praise that O2/ODAC is being given as a good design, its like you're all discrediting schiit's engineers, whom I think are quite brilliant themselves, 

post #192 of 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamijoIsMyHero View Post

schiit seems to be more secretive in keeping their designs known, patent issues maybe, with the praise that O2/ODAC is being given as a good design, its like you're all discrediting schiit's engineers, whom I think are quite brilliant themselves, 

Patents have nothing to do with it, unless they have been stealing designs from someone else (lol).

An electrical engineer could easily take the cover off the Schiit electronics and analyze what's inside of it. There's not likely to be any major secrets there that can't be figured out by someone with some good knowledge of audio engineering.

Regardless, proton007 has a good point. There are quite a few Internet audio manufacturers who publish extensive benchmarks of their equipment. I'm not going to speculate on their reasons, but there is no reason that Schiit couldn't do so if they wanted to. If their engineers are as good as you think that they are, they are already benchmarking their own stuff.
post #193 of 427
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post


I don't know what goes on behind closed doors. As of now, Schiit doesn't publish comprehensive measurements about any of their products.

About the test and measurements at Changstar, its been mentioned before. Its only a few measurements, again, not comprehensive. Take a look at the O2 designer's blog, and the measurements he's published, or to be more professional, take a look at the Benchmark Audio's manual for DAC1/DAC2 and the performance graphs inside. Just goes to show the confidence they have in their products.

 

 

Stop brown-nosing.  There's nothing special about the additional measurements in the Objective 2's blog.  I'm sure you'll find very minimal differences between all these measurements when comparing the O2 and Magni-- and any of the more prominent differences would be below the threshold of realistic listening levels (do we all really need to know that an amp has a -116db noise floor at half volume)  I'm a very measurement first type of guy, but at the end of the day I still rather go off subjective impressions of equipment from people whom I trust rather than looking at graphs all day.

 

Next I expect you to say that the O2 sounds the same as 1000 dollar amps in blind a/b comparisons.

 

 

Again, the differences between these two amp/dac combos are very minimal-- with people leaning towards either/or based on certain qualities.  Get what matters most to you-- the aesthetics of the Schiits or the transportability and front-facing panel of the Objectives.  Even if the Schiit stack was hypothetically 150 per like the Objectives, I'd personally still get the Schiit comob just off aesthetics alone.  If I had a more sensitive headphone, I'd get the Objectives possibly, because there's less channel imbalance down low and more volume pot to play with compared to the Magni.

post #194 of 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

Objective ofcourse. I doubt any amp has been tested as thoroughly as the O2.

 

And not just tested by the designer, but by others potentially with a bone to pick.  These others haven't found results that disagree with what's out there.  Also Tyll at IF to some degree.  So it is better-known, for whatever that is worth.  You can check the schematic too.

 

 

Schiit allegedly and most probably does plenty of testing internally (all the right ones?  maybe, maybe not); they just don't think it's important or a good idea to publish all kinds of results.  Most importantly, like many other audio designers—correctly or not—they probably don't believe the measurements they take are enough to represent the sound of the products.  Part of their marketing is how they're not numbers guys pursuing the top benchmarks.  Also, not that many people are interested in see all the measurements.  Many companies post even fewer specs.  Furthermore, any specs they do publish may likely be misunderstood by a lot of people (particularly at the point where numbers become good enough, further improvements don't really mean anything).  Finally, of course, the specs would be worse than some others.  The last thing a manufacturer of vacuum tube amps and champion of minimal feedback wants to do is get in a numbers war.  It tends to be gear intended for the professional market that comes with more published testing results.  And those with the best results, of course.

 

Personally I'd like to have more information available about everything, but I don't think they're all out there to cater to me.

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by KamijoIsMyHero View Post

but O2/ODAC is open source, seems like the designer wanted it to be known how to make a good amp

 

schiit seems to be more secretive in keeping their designs known, patent issues maybe, with the praise that O2/ODAC is being given as a good design, its like you're all discrediting schiit's engineers, whom I think are quite brilliant themselves, 

 

ODAC is not open source, cannot be DIY.  (party line is that chips used require NDAs and so on, which is true; some people furthermore suspect ulterior motives, money under the table, which you may or may not believe).  O2 is.

 

It's not at all a fair comparison from the designers' point of view in terms of information available and transparency because Schiit needs to make money and stuff, keep things under wraps.  No company wants to disclose too much to the customers and competitors.  From the consumer's point of view, depends on your priorities.

 

 

 

I think one of the most interesting differences here is that the O2/ODAC designer likes (sensitive, relatively high-end) IEMs, and of course some others.  If I understand correctly, Schiit owns or listens to or uses some planar magnetics like LCD-2 or something.  I forget.  Probably others too.

 

So the O2 gets extremely low noise.  Magni gets high default gain and lots of power at low impedance loads.


Edited by mikeaj - 1/16/13 at 11:16pm
post #195 of 427

Any and every thread that mentions the Objective Amp or DAC will eventually leads to people arguing and citing the O2/ODAC measurements.

 

It's like Godwin's Law, but instead of Nazis it's the measurements.

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