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*Comparison and Review* Magni/Modi vs O2/ODAC - Page 12

post #166 of 440

I like the ODAC and O2 amp combo that allows you to have the amp volume cranked all the way up and use the software player volume control and not loose any resolution or data.....again a great design.

 

Alex

post #167 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

I like the ODAC and O2 amp combo that allows you to have the amp volume cranked all the way up and use the software player volume control and not loose any resolution or data.....again a great design.

Alex

+1 I think a lot of thought went into designing the O2 and ODAC, great design and implementation.
post #168 of 440

This little amp just keeps on giving...

 

Hard to believe that something at this price point can be so good.....

 

Smiling all the way to "my" bank.....

 

Alex

post #169 of 440

Does either the magni or o2 appreciably change the sound stage? In particular, I'm wondering about the stage of the HE-400's.
 

post #170 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcgryphon View Post

Absolutely no hiss from my HE-400 and M&M. The high gain isn't bothering me either once I drop the PC volume or furbar2000+WASAPI to about 75-80%. Can probably drop it lower, but I'm comfortable with the Magni volume pot around 10-11 o'clock.


yea i dont get why people are nagging about the *5 gain, just drop your computers volume...

post #171 of 440

Or use the O2 with a lower gain (I bet that most would be fine with a gain of even 1x with a 2 Vrms source), that way you don't have to use digital attenuation.

post #172 of 440

how much of a difference would it make though? i know i dont really hear one

post #173 of 440

Fyi:

 

The majority of USB DACs only support 16 bits over USB. That means when you turn down the volume in software you’re getting less than 16 bits of resolution. At background music levels you might only be listening to 11 or 12 bit audio. But the ODAC has a 24 bit USB interface and enough dynamic range to allow guilt-free use of software volume controls.

 

just sayin....

 

Alex

post #174 of 440

Depends on the performance your DAC and the amount of attenuation.

 

The basic rule is to use the least amount of gain to get the job done. You can read an entire article about it if you google "all about gain".

 

edit: The ODAC is just under 19 ENOB (effective number of bits), the DAC1 reaches about 19.3 referenced to it's full output (above 7 volts), the fiio e10 is only 16.2 ENOB. (from the blog that shall not be named)


Edited by xnor - 1/15/13 at 10:21am
post #175 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

Fyi:

 

The majority of USB DACs only support 16 bits over USB. That means when you turn down the volume in software you’re getting less than 16 bits of resolution. At background music levels you might only be listening to 11 or 12 bit audio. But the ODAC has a 24 bit USB interface and enough dynamic range to allow guilt-free use of software volume controls.

 

just sayin....

 

Alex

 

oh, alright then, thank you for that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Depends on the performance your DAC and the amount of attenuation.

 

The basic rule is to use the least amount of gain to get the job done. You can read an entire article about it if you google "all about gain".

 

edit: The ODAC is just under 19 ENOB (effective number of bits), the DAC1 reaches about 19.3 referenced to it's full output (above 7 volts), the fiio e10 is only 16.2 ENOB. (from the blog that shall not be named)

i see. hurm.... maybe i'll get the objective pair instead, although to be fair, i really didnt hear any difference when playing around with the volume...

"from the blog that shall not be named" - lol!

post #176 of 440

I have used some tools in the last months to actually listen from 24 bits down to 8 bits to see where my ears and hardware would start perceiving the loss of these bits....I was amazed....it was lower than 10 bits!!

 

The HD audio guys wont like that...

 

Alex

post #177 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydula View Post

I have used some tools in the last months to actually listen from 24 bits down to 8 bits to see where my ears and hardware would start perceiving the loss of these bits....I was amazed....it was lower than 10 bits!!

 

The HD audio guys wont like that...

 

Alex


yea, i saw a clip of ethan winers where he degrades the bit depth one bit at a time, starting at 24 bits. personally i could only hear a difference at around 8-9 bits, it was a good clip to watch, put things into perspective.

post #178 of 440

Differences in bitdepth is something that only occasionally, or at the extremely low bitdepths you have just found, makes a hearable difference.

 

A higher bitdepth is important for small differences in level or waveform when there is a lot of sound in the music, like, say, the decay of a triangle in the midst of an outburst from an orchestra. That is not a common thing in music, nor is it easy to hear. I'm not so sure that could have been heard through any hifi system I've ever listened to, but I know I have heard it live.

 

The more important thing is headroom. For example just as already discussed, for digital volume control, but also for when something goes wrong in the digital domain. Take a look at Defiant00's excellent explanation. One lost bit of 24 is a lot less likely to make a difference you can hear than one lost bit of 16, remember that the 8 extra are a lot less significant. This means the DAC has a slightly easier job. Upping the sample rate will do the same, this is the only justification for upsampling as far as I can see, and you might have heard upsampling can sometimes be a good thing even when with the signal already on the same chip as the DAC...

 

Enough with the derailing. Back on topic: Applause to TMRaven for the revolutionarily short and concise review! Refreshing, to say the least. :)

post #179 of 440

Defiant's explanation is not practical.
 

No 24 bit DAC achieves 24 bit performance. High end DACs maybe get close to 20, but as posted before, some 24 bit DACs do not even perform better than good 16 bit DACs.

 

He also assumes that 25% volume corresponds to 12 dB attenuation, but on my system 25% is over 20 dB of attenuation (~3.4 bits). The system volume control percentage is not the gain.

post #180 of 440

and adaptive dacs can outperform asynchronous dacs!

 

Alex

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