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T-PEOS H-200 - new triple hybrid IEM - Impressions thread - Page 107

post #1591 of 2592

^ yeah me too what do those charts say overall. Sorry cuz i is ig'nant. Can someone explain them in lay terms instead of graphics??? 

post #1592 of 2592

What works for me is using the translucent tips + deep insertion... all contradicts Rin's recommendations. I just don't get it why I'm hearing differently, maybe I'll try the black tips once more and confirm it. As far as I can remember, I preferred the translucent tips over the black ones because they have better soundstage plus they're a lot more easier to insert and get a good seal.

post #1593 of 2592

Have they changed the design? Picture different. Look`s nicer if they have.

post #1594 of 2592
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfwalcer View Post

^ yeah me too what do those charts say overall. Sorry cuz i is ig'nant. Can someone explain them in lay terms instead of graphics??? 

 

Which graph are you speaking about specifically? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinth View Post

Have they changed the design? Picture different. Look`s nicer if they have.

 

Rin tends to grab pictures off the internet, not take his own. That picture looks like a mockup, or pre-release, design.  I doubt its changed.  My model is newer than the loaner Rin got from FlySweep, it still has the dark grey metal accents instead of the gold. 

post #1595 of 2592

Cable connection looks like a massive upgrade also.

post #1596 of 2592

Oh no, It has a giant 20db suckout at 6.5khz!

 

What a pity...I used to think the H-200 sounded good.

post #1597 of 2592
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Oh no, It has a giant 20db suckout at 6.5khz!

 

What a pity...I used to think the H-200 sounded good.

 

Surprisingly he lists this as a pro as it gets nullified (for less than a millisecond)...  Also, it's at the 6.5k instead of the 5k, so it's all good XD  /sarcasm

 


Edited by tinyman392 - 7/8/13 at 11:02am
post #1598 of 2592

I have to say guys although I sold mine they were a decent sounding IEM and I have zero chart knowledge. 

post #1599 of 2592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinth View Post

I have to say guys although I sold mine they were a decent sounding IEM and I have zero chart knowledge. 

 

They are a decent sounding IEM, definitely are...  Maybe a little more than just decent too ;)

post #1600 of 2592
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

They are a decent sounding IEM, definitely are...  Maybe a little more than just decent too ;)

 

Yeah I`ll go with that.

post #1601 of 2592
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

Which graph are you speaking about specifically? 

LoL ALL OF EM'!!!

 

What do all those graphs say about these H-200 overall. Negatives??? Positives??? That stood out like a sore thumb???

Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Oh no, It has a giant 20db suckout at 6.5khz!

 

What a pity...I used to think the H-200 sounded good.

Stop trollin' ekey boi!!!deadhorse.gif

post #1602 of 2592
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfwalcer View Post

LoL ALL OF EM'!!!

 

What do all those graphs say about these H-200 overall. Negatives??? Positives??? That stood out like a sore thumb???

Stop trollin' ekey boi!!!deadhorse.gif

 

OK, from the subjective realm of listening, my findings were that there were two main issues with the IEM, the 6 kHz region made snare snaps not snap as strongly and lively as they should.  The second issue was that the upper treble could be sibilant at times as well as metallic, the 9-10 kHz peak accounts for this.  An ideal solution to help fix both of these problems would be to make the dip in the 6 kHz smaller, bringing it up with the rest of the spectrum, without affecting the 3 kHz region and decreasing the 9-10 kHz region by about 9 dB.  This can be done using EQ and would fix quite a bit of the issues people are having with the H-200.  My graphs, as well as Rins initial graphs show these as the main sources of issue with the H-200.  I've shown this subjectively, as well as linked it objectively. 

 

I know the above assessment is highly negative, I just wanted to show the issues of the IEM, mainly 2 issues it has.  Rin's analysis normally follows the route of finding the issues and trying to find some way to fix it to his liking (it may not be your, or my liking) in the analog* realm (no EQs or digital fixes).  As stated in the past, and many times over, the IEMs do great, almost perfect, below the treble ranges.  OK, down to what the graphs say about the IEM.

 

BTW, Eke really isn't trolling, that dip does cause quite a few issues in the IEM, some I didn't realize until I compared the H-200 with other IEMs, and one that was evident right away.

 

First graph shows phase overlapped with impedance.  The impedance shows that the IEM's sound will change when you add electrical resistance or output impedance (from a source).  That said, the sound of the IEM will vary depending on what source is used. 

 

The second graph is the frequency response.  Given a certain frequency, it'll tell you how loud it is in relation to the rest.  Since the ear canal does quite a bit of warping to the sound, the color graph attempts to compensate for this.  The compensation may or may not be accurate. 

 

He gives impulse response, as well as distortion figures.  Most of the distortion is low, so shouldn't be too worried about that.

 

Waterfall plots show how the IEM will respond with a time emphasis....  They are generally used to show where there are resonances/ringing in the system.  In this case, the 3 kHz and 9 kHz have a distinct ring to them.  The 3 kHz ring is natural to our ears, they naturally resonant at that frequency, the 9 kHz can become a problem for some.  It can add a metallic tinge to the sound and can be sibilant to some (like myself). 

 

Then he goes into other characteristics of the graphs.  Insertion depth is how deep you insert your IEM.  He shows that the peak at 9-10kHz can get tamed as you insert your IEMs more shallowly (not as deep).  He also shows that the dip at 6 kHz (which takes a bit of detail away from the treble) can be helped a little by inserting the IEM extremely shallowly; the dip goes from 20 dB to about 12 dB.  Not a complete solution to the problem, subjectively (from my listening experiences) unfortunately.   

 

Impedance characteristics come after.  He applies both 33 ohm and 100 ohm resistors to the H-200 to see how it reacts.  Although 33 ohms will help fix the 6 kHz dip, 100 ohms will make it about 5 dB deeper (making the issue worse with the H-200).  That said, some resistance added to the H-200 will be benificial, too much will lead to issues.

 

He shows how using different filters on the nozzle (covering up the nozzle with different materials) will impact the sound.  The graph shows that there is little difference in sound when using most filters (HiFiMan's filter and a handkerchief), but using a foam plug will highly suppress the highs.  IMO, that looks like a bit more suppression than anyone would like.  We'll see, I don't know what a foam plug is so I can't test this one subjectively.

 

He goes and shows the differences between tips, one thing that I did do for people as well.  His results contradict my measurements and show a more drastic difference in measurement using the tips.  The black tips seem to tame the highs and the null peak. 

 

He then goes to show that if you combine some of the methods above, you'll "fix" the dip at the 6 kHz (one of two main problems with the H-200) as well as the upper treble (second of two problems).  From the way it looks though, you also end up creating an IEM that might be a bit too dark for many, additionally, the 6 kHz dip isn't entirely fixed, it's still a 15 dB drop from 1 kHz. 

 

The issue with reading many graphs is that everyone will interpret them differently.  There is no "correct" interpretation of the graph and how it'll impact sound.  So many things impact the end subjective sound of the IEM, and a lot of them aren't fully understood yet.  Many of the subjective statements I've made above are using my limited time with the H-200 and its resonance points and general patterns I've seen pop up.  They may or may not be 100% correct, someone may interpret the graph differently, it many ways, the graph itself is objective, but the assessment of said graph is highly subjective, I would honestly call it an art

 

*For all intensive purposes, changing the electric signal after it exits the headphone jack is an analog tweak and not a digital one.

____

 

I know I shouldn't read graphs, but it looks like Rin, in his best effort to tame the dip at 6 kHz ended up doing something that actually made the issue wider.  I do want to see waterfall plots for the proposed fix, but it looks like he also got rid of the resonances around the dip that would compensate and did a great job masking the issue for the most part.  It looks as if Rin compensated a little too much for the issue at hand.  That's my take on the graphs. 


Edited by tinyman392 - 7/8/13 at 12:09pm
post #1603 of 2592

^ WOW!!! THANKS A TON MENG.

 

 

 

So in a nutshell the two most glaring faults on these H-200s is that upper treble can be a bit harsh due to their metallic tinge similar to the issue of the Sony XBA3s. And that some instruments might not sound the most natural/ life-like due to the recessed snap on the 6 kHz region???

 

Besides that these seem like they are awesome sounding overall.

post #1604 of 2592

Well I'm certainly waiting on the opinions of the head-fiers member who have never heard the H-200 to let me know if I like this earphone or not. popcorn.gif

post #1605 of 2592

In actual usage experience, I don't find the 6.5k dip too troublesome.  The metallic tint is quite noticeable.  However some might actually like them on violins or brass instruments as depending on the type of music and can even be regarded as having a fun character.  It is more troublesome on windwood as it would sound artificial.  Overall I like the H-200 more for EDM than acoustic/classical music.  With studio recorded/mixed stuff tho, it is an immensely fun and largely accurate sounding IEM.

 

YMMV 

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