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Ocharaku: Flat-4-Sui. The Sound of Tea. - Page 4

post #46 of 92
There is the opinion and the way to state it. You have made no case at all, just stated random stuff. And so far you only state negative opinions in all threads. But I will just ignore you from now on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

So having a strong opinion about a products inferiority should be frown upon? I made my case, ignore if you want. I personally would not pay over 100$ for these, it's clear it's an experimental design. Build is nice though
post #47 of 92
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

There is the opinion and the way to state it. You have made no case at all, just stated random stuff. And so far you only state negative opinions in all threads. But I will just ignore you from now on.

What I said was random? It was specific and to the point. There is just something very weird going on the midhighs and lower treble in these, it's simply off, my reference is a W4+100ohms+grey-knowles-damper which is dead flat on the midhighs [resulting in more details, less masking and no sibilance]. The mids are recessed on the Flat-4, though I found that Rin's mod of blocking side and front damper help with this. To me it sounds like an experimental effort by a new company, I think they could've gotten away with it at a more reasoneable price though. 


Edited by Inks - 5/8/13 at 12:56am
post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

What I said was random? It was specific and to the point. There is just something very weird going on the midhighs and lower treble in these, it's simply off, my reference is a W4+100ohms+grey-knowles-damper which is dead flat on the midhighs [resulting in more details, less masking and no sibilance]. The mids are recessed on the Flat-4, though I found that Rin's mod of blocking side and front damper help with this. To me it sounds like an experimental effort by a new company, I think they could've gotten away with it at a more reasoneable price though. 

Ok, I said I would ignore you, but you are making this quite hard. I am going to be totally honest and transparent. I do not have an ounce of technical knowledge and know nothing about graphs unless they a company's profits.

 

I have two very innovative ways to judge iems:

  1. Listening to them
  2. Trusting someone's who's tastes I can judge by their opinion on iems I know

 

I love the Flat-4 Kaede. A friend loaned them to me and I ordered them within a day. They sound close to the Sui apparently. Many other headfiers, including ones with much experience, technical or otherwise, think like me. Are they flat or technically perfect ? Certainly not and I do not care, because they produce magic when I listen to them.

 

Does this mean you do not have the right to dislike them ? No it doesn't, you are totally entitled to you opinion, and I actually respect it. But if you come to this thread, like you do on many other threads, and tell people who love an iem: "it is crappy and offensive", YOU ARE INSULTING THEM. You are basically saying: "this iem is crap, you are stupid for not understanding it, but let me enlighten you".

 

I really do not know why you cannot understand this, it is basic social skills. It could entail an interesting discussion if you would put more nuance to your affirmation. You could understand the fact that a graph does not necessarily tell you everything about an iem, and that people are allowed to love iems with graphs that are not balanced at all.

 

On top of that, the creator of the Ocharaku is well respected for being a genius headphone creator, so once again, you could express yourself with more humility and restraint when saying it is an "experimental effort by a new company".

post #49 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

 

I love the Flat-4 Kaede. A friend loaned them to me and I ordered them within a day. They sound close to the Sui apparently. Many other headfiers, including ones with much experience, technical or otherwise, think like me. Are they flat or technically perfect ? Certainly not and I do not care, because they produce magic when I listen to them.

 

Does this mean you do not have the right to dislike them ? No it doesn't, you are totally entitled to you opinion, and I actually respect it. But if you come to this thread, like you do on many other threads, and tell people who love an iem: "it is crappy and offensive", YOU ARE INSULTING THEM. You are basically saying: "this iem is crap, you are stupid for not understanding it, but let me enlighten you".

 

I really do not know why you cannot understand this, it is basic social skills. It could entail an interesting discussion if you would put more nuance to your affirmation. You could understand the fact that a graph does not necessarily tell you everything about an iem, and that people are allowed to love iems with graphs that are not balanced at all.

 

On top of that, the creator of the Ocharaku is well respected for being a genius headphone creator, so once again, you could express yourself with more humility and restraint when saying it is an "experimental effort by a new company".

I'm sorry I offended you but I critique a product, it's not my responsibility that you or other owners are offended by this. I placed nuance into my critique, it's pretty obvious by now, uneven midhighs, recessed mids and what I didn't mention, slightly loose bass. Luckily Rin's mod helps the latter two, but the biggest issue is the midhighs, they simply sound way off tangent when compared to the modded W4 and ADDIEM. 

 

The good old 'fr isn't everything', of course, and that was never implied. Plenty of IEMs with good FR are subpar like MC5s and PFE 122s. Now it is a very important factor, if not the most, it's were it all starts, even reviewers that don't use graphs are basically describing their perception of the frequency response as the main portion of their critique. 

 

IME every IEM has a notable drawback, but I set it forth when it's very apparent and this is simply the case here IME/IMO. I would love to know which other IEMs or headphones Yamagichi-San has done as this one is not a good one for credentials IMO. Not only that his principle set forth for a smooth diaphragm has no scientific basis...


Edited by Inks - 5/8/13 at 1:38am
post #50 of 92

Hi folks, crappy video and final impressions on the SUI are posted. You can read my final impressions on YouTube under the videos description box.

 

post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

Hi folks, crappy video and final impressions on the SUI are posted. You can read my final impressions on YouTube under the videos description box.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

So the v shape isn't that aggressive? Was sibilance an issue with these IEMs (as in for decently recorded tracks)?

post #52 of 92
Spending my first few hours with my flat 4 Sui, I find it not as sibilant as others find it and its tonality is dead on accurate, especially for strings instruments. I even find the v-shapeliness very mild, and vocals r well positioned in the mix. All along I play it with AK100 as source.
post #53 of 92

I agree. From what I'm gathering they are the most forgiving of the Flat 4 line. The Kaede had too much emphasis on treble for my tastes. The Sui is already at my threshold regarding treble. I also find them to be slightly U shaped but nothing major. It goes well with its presentation.
 

post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by nk77 View Post

 

So the v shape isn't that aggressive? Was sibilance an issue with these IEMs (as in for decently recorded tracks)?


Sorry it took me so long to got back to your question. In my experience the better the source the less sibilance. I will agree though the upper mids are a tad overly energetic causing tonality, especially with female vocals, to sometimes thread onto the hot side.

post #55 of 92

Ahh not at all, Digital Freak. Don't worry. I may have begun to consider the Kuros. I believe the mids are slightly forward in comparison to the Suis, whilst retaining a V shape in FR (albeit a slightly less shallower/U-shape sound sig). Apparently the Kaede is even better in the mids department but also slightly more stringent with the highs?

post #56 of 92

I have to disagree on the SUI being more forgiving than the KAEDE or less strident in the highs. If anything, I find the KAEDE treble to be slightly more refined and a bit easier to listen to for extended periods as a result. Honestly though, the differences between the Flat4s don't seem that vast to me anyway. I've heard more difference on the same pair of SUIs from one instance to the next, using different tips or insertion depths, than I have from the SUI and KAEDE.

 

Whatever Ocharaku did with the KURO, I have to say it's my least favorite of their efforts so far. It almost seems like they tried to flatten the response a bit, particularly down below, but they left the treble sounding more or less as it was before. The result is the most fatiguing entry into the lineup for me, because the bass response helped to counter balance the treble to my ears. 

 

This is conjecture on my part, but I don't get the sense Ocharaku is trying to make a whole rainbow of sound sigs with the Flat4, rather they seem to be going for a very specific signature and each model is a refinement or attempt to get closer to that ideal. For instance, the KAEDE really sounds like a slightly better SUI to me rather than vanilla to its chocolate, basically a limited edition with fancy packaging meant for die hards to celebrate the Flat4's design. The KURO on the other hand seems to be an attempt to implement some of those changes (both inside and out) but in a non-limited fashion meeting a certain price point, only something didn't quite work out along the way IMHO.

post #57 of 92

Final written impressions are up on CYMBACAVUM. Hope you enjoy the read guys.

post #58 of 92

Nice impressions/review. Very much enjoying my pair as I type :).
 

post #59 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

This is conjecture on my part, but I don't get the sense Ocharaku is trying to make a whole rainbow of sound sigs with the Flat4, rather they seem to be going for a very specific signature and each model is a refinement or attempt to get closer to that ideal. For instance, the KAEDE really sounds like a slightly better SUI to me rather than vanilla to its chocolate, basically a limited edition with fancy packaging meant for die hards to celebrate the Flat4's design. The KURO on the other hand seems to be an attempt to implement some of those changes (both inside and out) but in a non-limited fashion meeting a certain price point, only something didn't quite work out along the way IMHO.

So effectively what you are saying is the SUI is a fantastic bargain if it can provide you the Ocharaku sound sig without breaking the bank and aiming for the Kaede in which differences are marginal at best? Where are you saying the KURO differentiates when compared to the SUI and still retains the Ocharaku sound sig? Is it the mids?

post #60 of 92

Can anyone tell from this vid what the engineer is saying is the difference between the SUI and KURO models? 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJv3ntY66ww

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