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Project Sunrise/PS2 Tube Rolling Thread (and maybe even Project Horizon and Project Ember) - Page 22

post #316 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by stupidmop View Post

I think the ember is more solid state which would b why there isnt much diff ymmv

What makes you think this?

post #317 of 330

Sorry...Double post


Edited by stupidmop - 3/16/14 at 4:20pm
post #318 of 330

   I think, but not positive, that it uses an opamp as the output stage. OPamps have a lot of color on their own. Just my opinion tho. I'm sure Jeremy and Frans know what they're doing tho ;)

  Got a telefunken silver plate, made by siemens, ecc82.  Really nice tube. Very engaging. Easy to get lost in the music with it's amazing detail. Best treble I've heard.  Mids are amazing and the bottom end is no slouch. Bass isn't as strong as the mullard ecc82, but much tighter and clean. Soundstage is impressive for an ecc82. I consider my tfk 6922 the best of my lot, even after paying too much for it. It does everything well. This siemens is almost it's equal. This is in my sunrise II, but this little guys home is in my bottlead crack, haven't modded it to take 6 volt tubes ...yet ;)


Edited by stupidmop - 3/16/14 at 4:19pm
post #319 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinook9 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by henwell View Post
 

if you like the 6N6P you may like the 6H30Pi either the sovtec or the electro-harmonix. It has an 800 milliamp heater current but works well with the sunrise II and a little more detail than the 6N6P IMO the sunrise II has a 1 amp heater power supply

 

Since the 6N6P statement, I have acquired a few different headphones and now I tend to lean toward the 6N23P-EV.  The older ones of these are becoming harder to find and I like them so much I have acquired 3.......all Reflector plant which I like better than the Voskhod.

 

I have checked out the 6N30P-DR on the bay but haven't pulled the trigger on the older Reflector version. Have you compared the vintage version with the Sovtek or Electro Harmonix?  I believe that Jeremy indicated that the Sovtek are just the same.

I just got my  NOS 6h30 DR  from 1977 and am burning it in for a bit, sounds nice, but tomorrow will do a side by side comparison with the new production electro-harmonix 6h30 Pi 


Edited by henwell - 3/12/14 at 8:24pm
post #320 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by henwell View Post
 

I just got my  NOS 6h30 DR  for 1977 and am burning it in for a bit, sounds nice, but tomorrow will do a side by side comparison with the new production electro-harmonix 6h30 Pi 

 

Looking forward to your first impressions. 

post #321 of 330

I have spent a couple  of hours today comparing the 6H30 Pi from electro- Harmonix 12/07 to a NOS 6H30Dr III/77 in the Project Sunrise II. the NOS 6H30Dr was burned in for 6 hours or so playing music through the PSII and the EH 6H30Pi has about 20 hours or so on it. The listening was done with both etoymotic ER4P and Hifiman HE500 from my iMac using Decibel and Audirvana players through a Teac UD-501 DAC. I feel the NOS 6H30 is a better  sounding tube with more resolution of micro detail (The glasses tinking in the back ground on High Life, Jazz at the Pawn Shop 24 /88) The high end seems to have more air and detail (the shimmer of the cymbals in Take five by Dave Brubeck 176/24 from the Time Out album) The bass seemed tighter and more articulate, The acoustic bass in Ain't no Sunshine from Chesky recordsThe World's Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings 96/24 which features a female vocalist and acoustic bass. The tone and decay of the bass were better with the DR than the PI. All around a better sounding tube to my ears but the differences while notable were sometimes subtle. I don't know for sure if the differences are worth the $150.00 price difference between these 2 tubes.  Having not heard the Dr I would have been satisfied with the sound of the EH 6H30Pi. I would also be interesting to try the Sovtec 6H30Pi in this test as well. I was at Audio Research a week ago getting a preamp fixed and the service manager told me they use the Sovtec in all of their preamps that use the "super tube"


Edited by henwell - 3/17/14 at 11:22am
post #322 of 330

Thanks for the comparison.  I will pass up the 6N30P-DR for a while. 

 

I may try a couple of E182CC tubes after I  make an adapter but I'm not sure.  I already have 30 different tubes and I'm beginning to doubt that I will find anything better than I already have.

post #323 of 330

  Kinda embarrasing, but in a little over a year I've amassed 165 and counting :eek:....I have a problem :tongue_smile:. They're 6080 and variants for my Crack, and 12AU7,12AT7,12AV7,12AX7,12BH7,ECC85 and ECC88 and variants for my hybrids. I'm almost done with my wish list. But I can honestly say I doubt I will find anything better either, except for the crack. I would love to hear someone else's impressions of my collection on their sunrise. Sadly, I have no friends that appreciate sound in the way I do

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinook9 View Post
 

Thanks for the comparison.  I will pass up the 6N30P-DR for a while. 

 

I may try a couple of E182CC tubes after I  make an adapter but I'm not sure.  I already have 30 different tubes and I'm beginning to doubt that I will find anything better than I already have.

What exactly is an E182CC? I thought it was a European military grade 12AU7, however I am frequently wrong :wink_face: I have some flying leads I'm tinkering with :veryevil:

post #324 of 330

From a post in DIY forum......

 
 22nd March 2006, 12:01 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
 
I have used the E182CC a number of times in driver duty, and would like to contribute the following:

The E182CC has a higher plate dissipation than most, at 4,5W each triode and 8W for both. Otherwise it is difficult to choose between it and e.g. an ECC88; both are similar with the ECC88 having the slightly higher mu. The E182CC has a slightly higher Vmax at 600V, but a disadvantage is that I found that the 2 triodes can differ up to 30% in conductance, though infrequently. (One must remember that as a computer tube, being either on or off most of the time, equal mu's are not important.)

My application needed a driver for a Quad-type distributed load output stage (100W), where 350Vpp of signal was required into a 33K load resistor. I use them at 500V Vao, no-signal Ip=8mA, and plate voltage of 230V. 

Regarding use as a pre-amp tube I would not use it simply because there are more suitable types (smaller, cooler, lower microphonics, etc.). I think it is in a comparative sense that it is not "recommended" for pre-amp work; as said, the anode-grid capacitance is severe (3,4 - 4,6pF compared to ECC88 and others of 1,2 - 1,6pF). It is slightly microphonic, again not a prime requirement regarding its intended application.

Apart from the hint in the previous post, "special quality" mostly means guaranteed life for this kind of tube, not rigidity, low microphonics etc. not required in its main field of use. (Those requirements would be mandatory in special quality audio tubes, e.g.)

For my application I find it quite satisfactory. With due respect to MJ, the "sound" of a tube is so related to other factors, apart from the subjectivity of hearing, that I am always a little sceptical as to such reports.

I hope this helps, beamnet. Regards.
 
post #325 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinook9 View Post
 

Thanks for the comparison.  I will pass up the 6N30P-DR for a while. 

 

I may try a couple of E182CC tubes after I  make an adapter but I'm not sure.  I already have 30 different tubes and I'm beginning to doubt that I will find anything better than I already have.

If you find one you like and it makes your phones sound good stick with it.  I'm likely to go back to my trusty 1975 Voskhod rocket 6H23. It is fun to pull out some of the other tubes and have a listen but generally I end up going back to the old stock reflector or Voskhod 6h23's

post #326 of 330

Thanks @ connieflyer :beerchug: 

 

Edit: Got my sylvania gold brand ecc82 with gold pins, Matched pair gray plate and a black plate version I didn't know existed, researching more on this one. Impressions in a few days hopefully.

  I don't understand what people are talking about with higher gains of tube affecting loudness (referring to the ember review thread). I have NEVER noticed this. A 12au7,12at7,12ax7,6922,ecc85 all are the same volume on the knob every time. My sunrise has been acting a little funny while biasing so maybe it's something with my amp or maybe the new design of ember causes this *shrug*


Edited by stupidmop - 3/18/14 at 5:52pm
post #327 of 330

I would have to respectfully disagree Mop. I have the following: E88CC ( came with Sunrise III) ECC82 ECC802S and just picked up a pair of 6N6P 80's NOS. I can say I noticed a significant difference in overall loudness between the E88CC and the ECC82 where the E88CC was louder with everything set up the same. Also between the E88CC and the 6N6P the E88CC is louder. This is when i listen with my AD900X. However if I use some iems the difference is slightly less noticeable.   

 

Maybe because I am using low ohm high sensitivity cans ( 38ohm 100dB/mW)  the perceived  volume is higher with different tubes then on higher ohm cans say DT770 (250ohm 96dB/mW).   

 

 

From my limited research my 6N6P is also labeled as E182CC. All I know is that it is by far the best tube i have and that is with only about 3 hrs on it. 

post #328 of 330

  Ya I'm using dt770, 990 250 ohm and hd650. Laptop>Modi>Sunrise II. My modded t50rp are 50 ohm, I think, and don't notice a diff there either but orthos are another animal. 

  But I wonder why would the ember have a gain selector if the tube changed the gain? Or the aune T1? The tube would have to be implemented as the gain phase in the circuit (coming from my very limited knowledge on the subject) to effect the volume.  I hear more distortion in my 12ax7s but the knob is at 10 o'clock and is the same volume as my tfk 6922 at 10 o'clock and my 12av7 ge cleartop (which has diff gains on each channel) at 10 o'clock. I am approaching 40 yrs young so maybe the hearing is starting to go...(gawd hope not) Diff strokes for diff folks I guess.

post #329 of 330
I am contemplating purchase of the Ember but question: on Garage17 website, under Project Ember user manual - operation guide - it says there may be 'some channel imbalance below 9 o'clock on the volume this is normal & solution seems to be to adjust the source output level so can use with volume setting of 9 o'clock or greater'. First, how do you adjust the source volume when you are using RCA line out from a CD player?? Also, it has been my experience with portable amplifers that slight increases in volume can be more than my ears can take. I suspect that it depends on the gain jumpers and whether you are using low or high impedance headphones. In a previous comment on this thread, Rabbit said he was using the Horizon (not Ember) with Beyer DT990 and his volume level was at 8 o'clock. Thanks to anyone for info, I like to listen at relatively low volume levels but channel imbalance would be a problem.
 
solderdude
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Project Ember Jun 11, 2013 at 2:04am 
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Post by solderdude on Jun 11, 2013 at 2:04am

The reason for the possible imbalance (not all potmeters are created equal) is the physical size of the potmeter.
With small potmeters the tracking (difference between L and R channel) is bound to differ a bit.

When using a CDP you cannot adjust the output voltage but the gain of the amplifier can be altered by the jumpers.
If the gain is still too high AND you are always listening at the potmeter below 9 o'clock AND your potmeter has a noticeable imbalance you can always lower the gain of the amp even further by:
a: changing the value of a resistor
b: choosing a tube with lower gain

Portable amplifiers, more often than not, have linear volume controls as they are more or less intended as 'gain control' instead of volume control.
In these cases the potmeter reacts a lot from 0 to 30% setting and very little between 50% and 100%
The potmeter in Ember (etc) are log type and do not have this behavior.

The horizon didn't have the gain setting and because the gain of tubes that have no feedback is rather high we added the gain jumper.

Before ordering you can contact Jeremy and ask him to select the best possible potmeter (I know he tests each potmeter individually!) and lower the gain of the amp even further by changing the resistors.
Jeremy knows where to find me to get the proper values.



Read more: http://diyah.boards.net/thread/143/project-ember?page=2#ixzz2wSc1lWxK

post #330 of 330

Also this explains the different power settings for  headphones, you can see that the higher the impedance of the headphone the resistor settings the less of a difference they make.  Low impedance headphones really can make a large change, higher not so much.............................................Ember.png

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