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Project Sunrise/PS2 Tube Rolling Thread (and maybe even Project Horizon and Project Ember) - Page 10

post #136 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by stupidmop View Post

Mine are from 1960 with halo getter. I paid $40 a piece, those seem a little high. I'm almost done evaluating more than 10 tubes in my sunrise ii. I've noticed that the tubes don't affect the sound as much as my G3 or fournier. Will post thoughts soon.

 

well i think for my first few tube purchases i will ask someone on the forums to check for me so i dont buy the wrong ones 

 

I look forward to your thoughts on your tube rolling 

post #137 of 356

The "Tubes Tour" concludes with Jeremy's impressions:

 

EDIT - Corrections:

 

Received the tubes from the tour the other day, appreciated! I did read previous reviews of what you guys thought quite awhile ago, but with my memory, that was long forgotten so will have to re-read. Here is what I thought if them and how I reviewed them. 

 

 

TESTED IN PROJECT EMBER - GOOD LORD AUTO BIAS AND VOLTAGE SELECTION IS NICE FOR ROLLING. TAKES ABOUT 10 SECONDS TO ADJUST. JUST POP A TUBE IN AND GO (SHAMELESS PLUG)

-           LOW INPUT GAIN SELECTED

-           CAPACITORS SET TO TC

-           OUTPUT RESISTANCE AT .1

-           SOURCE OPPO BDP93

-           TUBES RATED 1-5 STARS (5 BEING EXCELLENT)

-           DBV3 MODDED T50RP USED FOR TESTING

 

PSVANE 12AX7

BACKGROUND NOISE  * (ACCEPTABLE AT 120R)

DYNAMICS***

STAGE ***

MICROPHONICS ***

GRIN FACTOR ***

BUILD QUALITY *****

NOTES: HARD TO COMPARE TO OTHERS BECAUSE OF THE HIGH NOISE FLOOR / GAIN. SOUNDS LIKE A PISSED OFF CAT HISSING BUT THIS IS A BIT NORMAL FOR HIGH GAIN TUBES.

 

PSVANE 12AU7T

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS *****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS **** (SLIGHTLY CLINKY – YES THAT IS A TECHNICAL TERM)

GRIN FACTOR *****

BUILD QUALITY *****

NOTES: REALLY NICE TUBE – DYNAMIC YET NOT HARSH. COULD LISTEN TO IT ALL DAY. SADLY, IT IS IDENTICAL - SAVE THE GOLD PINS AND LETTERING TO A $7 CHINESE TUBE I HAVE HERE. ACTUALLY SOUNDS IDENTICAL TO ME (PROPS TO THE $7 TUBE!) THE PSVANE INTERNALS ARE ALIGNED BETTER TO NOTE. AND... THEY MEASURE VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

 

 

SOPHIA 12AU7

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS ***

STAGE ***

MICROPHONICS ****

GRIN FACTOR ***

BUILD QUALITY ****

NOTES: NOT SURE WHY... I JUST DO NOT LIKE THIS TUBE. WAS NOT MY CUP OF TEA. VOCALS SOUND WEIRD – SORT OF WHEAZY

 

TELEFUNKEN PCC88

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS ****

STAGE ****

MICROPHONICS * (CLEAR RING IF TAPPED – LEFT CHANNEL)

GRIN FACTOR ****

BUILD QUALITY *****

NOTES: I DIG THIS TUBE - NICE

 

VALVO PCC88

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS ****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS *****

GRIN FACTOR ****

BUILD QUALITY ****

NOTES: NICE –DEFINITELY ONE TO OWN . SMOOTH BUT NOT BORING

 

SIEMENS PCC88

BACKGROUND NOISE  ****

DYNAMICS ****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS *****

GRIN FACTOR ****

BUILD QUALITY ****

NOTES: GOOD TUBE BETTER. INTERNALS ARE VERY CLOSE TO THE AMPEREX 6DJ8 SAVE A DIFFERENT GETTER  

 

VALVO PCC88 RED LABEL

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS *****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS *** (CLINKY – SLIGHT RING LEFT CHANNEL)

GRIN FACTOR *****

BUILD QUALITY *****

NOTES: COULD BE MY IMAGINATION BUT THIS VERSION SOUNDS A LITTLE MORE DYNAMIC AND BUILD IS NICER. AGAIN MICROPHONICS NEVER BOTHER ME AS I DO NOT SIT AND TAP ON MY TUBES ALL DAY BUT THIS HAS A LITTLE. OVERALL LOVE IT!

 

TESLA E88CC (CROSSED SWORDS)

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS ****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS *****

GRIN FACTOR ****

BUILD QUALITY *****

NOTES: SOUNDS A LITTLE BRIGHT – NOT REALLY ENJOYING THE LISTEN. THOUGHT THIS ONE AND THE NEXT WERE COUNTERFEIT – RELABELED NEW JJ’S BUT CLOSE INSPECTION SHOWS THEY ARE IN FACT BUILT PROPERLY – LIKE THE OLDER GEN TESLAS.

 

AMPEREX 6DJ8

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS *****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS *** (CLINKY IN BOTH CHANNELS)

GRIN FACTOR *****

BUILD QUALITY *****

NOTES: NICE – BESIDES BEING A LITTLE MICROPHONIC (I REALLY NEVER CARE ABOUT THIS AS MY AMPLIFIERS ARE NOT BEING TAPPED AND SHAKEN WHILE I LISTEN) THIS TUBE IS GREAT! DOES IT ALL RIGHT. FEMALE VOCALS ARE  FLAWLESS. VERY PLEASED WITH THIS TUBE 

 

MULLARD 12BH7 LONG PLATE

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS ****

STAGE ****

MICROPHONICS * (RING IN BOTH CHANNELS)

GRIN FACTOR ****

BUILD QUALITY **

NOTES: NICE – BUILT ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON BUT SOUNDS LIKE YOU JUST GOT HOME :) DID I EVER SAY HOW MUCH I LIKE 12BH7’S? TUBE MAY BE UGLY BUT VERY GOOD FOR THE PRICE

 

MULLARD 12AU7

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS *****

STAGE ****

MICROPHONICS ** ( SLIGHT RING IN BOTH CHANNELS)

GRIN FACTOR ****

BUILD QUALITY ****

NOTES: NICE – NICE BOTTOM END – FEMALE VOCALS SEEM A LITTLE THICK. THIS WEAKNESS WOULD BE A STRENGTH WITH A LOT OF MUSIC. DEFINITELY A KEEPER

 

6N1P GOLD GRID

BACKGROUND NOISE  *** (SLIGHT HISS)

DYNAMICS ***

STAGE ****

MICROPHONICS *** (SLIGHTLY CLINKY)

GRIN FACTOR ***

BUILD QUALITY ****

NOTES:  DIFFERENT VERSION VS. WHAT I HAVE IN MY COLLECTION OF 6N1P GOLD GRIDS. GETTER IS DIFFERENT, NOT AS BRIGHT GLOW WISE. BOTH STAGE AND DYNAMICS SEEM A LITTLE FLAT. BASS IS FLOPPY – WOULD BE GOOD FOR ROCK – METAL

 

6N1P-VI GOLD GRID (NOVOSIBIRSK)

BACKGROUND NOISE  *** (SLIGHT HISS)

DYNAMICS *****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS *** (SLIGHT RING)

GRIN FACTOR ****

BUILD QUALITY ****

NOTES:  STAGE AND DYNAMICS ARE BACK WITH THIS 6N1P, IDENTICAL TO ONES IN MY COLLECTION.  BASS CAN BE A LITTLE LOOSE STILL BUT I DIG IT ;) ANOTHER BARGAIN WINNER.

 

SYLVANIA 12AV7

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS ****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS *** (SLIGHTLY CLINKY)

GRIN FACTOR ****

BUILD QUALITY *****

NOTES: GOOD EXAMPLE OF A 12AV7. SOUNDS EXCELLENT. SLIGHTLY LIGHT ON THE VERY BOTTOM END BUT OVERALL ONE HECK OF A VALUE.

 

REFLEKTOR 6N23P

BACKGROUND NOISE  **** (VERY SLIGHT HISS)

DYNAMICS *****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS * (YOU CAN PLAY THIS ONE LIKE A VIOLIN IF YOU SLIDE YOUR FINGER ACROSS THE FLASH)

GRIN FACTOR *****

BUILD QUALITY ****

NOTES: SILLY MICROPHONICS… BUT AS WITH MOST ALL 6N23P’S…  I JUST LOVE THEIR SOUND. THEY GET IT RIGHT ACROSS THE BOARD.  BUILD IS IDENTICAL TO THE EH 6922 I USE IN CURRENT PRODUCTION AMPS. 

 

I FIND IT FUNNY AS THEY SOUND IDENTICAL IN OUR DESIGNS AND EVERYONE LOVES, LOVES, LOVES THE 6N23P. BUT IF THEY HEAR ELECTRO HARMONIX IN THE NAME, THEY AUTOMATICALLY REJECT IT AS NOT POSSIBLY SOUNDING GOOD. THEY THINK THIS SINCE THEY HAVE READ REVIEWS FROM OTHERS SPOUTING THE SAME STUFF THEY READ AND IT TRICKLES DOWN BUT ACTUALLY THE 6922 FROM EH IS PRETTY DARN GOOD AND GETS IT RIGHT (AS WELL OF COURSE AS THE VINTAGE 6N23P'S WHICH I LOVE)

 

Thanks: geetarman49, chinook9, and Jeremy for your reviews.

 

Edited by bluemonkeyflyer - 5/12/13 at 2:22pm
post #138 of 356

thnx, Jeremy, for the nice & concise impressions of the tubes.  swap w/o fiddling ... priceless!!
 

post #139 of 356

I have purchased a used Brimar 12AU7 for my Horizon. Man, this thing is definitely better than stock 6N23P. Music just feels more alive, bass is more impactful and highs are more articulated. Actually, I can compare it to a DAC upgrade, when I moved from FiiO E17 to ODAC smily_headphones1.gif

 

Been listening for two days now before posting my impressions to verity that it is not a placebo effect.

post #140 of 356

   Finished rolling my 6 volt tubes. I listened for at least 2 hours on my dt 770s with each tube, usually more. Not a single one was microphonic or noisy at all. I scribbled notes as I was listening. This was done on my project sunrise II. The more I listen to this amp the more I like itbeyersmile.png

 

6N23P EV: My least favorite. Not a bad tube but not my cup of tea. Tight detailed bass but lacks extension. Crisp mids. Highs a little grainy. Soundstage is ok, weakest of the lot. Natural sounding and balanced.

 

Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88: Nice tube but I like it's 12 volt cousin a lot better. Great sub extension and impact. Mids are fantastic. Highs rolled off a touch. Really nice sound stage tho not as good as the siemens.

 

Siemens ECC88: Not quite as good as the E88cc version but similar. Great sub extension, good impact. Very musical tube. Nice mids, guitars sound nice! Highs are crisp and no sibilance. Big soundstage.

 

Amperex 6DJ8 A-Frame Orange Globe: Bass impact is weak and flabby, almost wooly. Nice airy mids. Beautiful sparkle in the top end. Soundstage is nothing to write about.

 

Mullard E88CC Gold Pins Blackburn: Bass extends for days but is wooly. Very sloppy but nice slam. Best mids I've ever heard. Luscious, out front, WOW! Maybe a little thick for some? Highs are nice and balanced. Soundstage is pretty good.

 

Amperex White Label E88CC Gold Pins: Really nice tube! Sub extension is meh, Impact is average and a bit slow. Nice mids, guitars sound pretty good. Very airy highs. A very delicate sounding tube, really open and a huge soundstage

 

Siemens E88CC Gold Pins: My fave 6 volt tube. Tight, detailed and fast bass with excellent grip! Mids are perfect. Highs are magical! Low level detail is amazing. Excellent pace. Huge Soundstage! I've bought several of these, not one of them is noisy.

 

   I had planned on doing a bunch of 12 volt tubes in this write up but I found my old notes from my G3 and bravo don't apply with this amp. Tubes sound totally different in each of the amps I have. So I'm re-visiting them all in my sunrise. Kinda goes to show that you need to listen for yourself. Plus this is mad fun! Will post some 12 volt thoughts next.

 

Best,

Mop


Edited by stupidmop - 5/19/13 at 6:36pm
post #141 of 356

Thanks, some great feedback in there! Still waiting for my amp to arrive, I have my valve shopping list ready!

post #142 of 356

 Thanks @daerron. Hope it helps in some way. Here be me 12 volt thoughts. Here is what I've rolled so far.

 

Ultron Ecc82: Good impact and extension. A bit grainy in the mid region but not bad at all(splittin' hairs here). Nice highs. Airy, dynamic. Guitars sound great! Really surprised by this one, wasn't expecting much since I payed 10 bones.

 

Telefunken Smooth Plate ECC82: Background hum but don't notice it when listening. Perfectly balanced sound. Excellent extension and good impact. Attack and decay is second to none. Perfect mids. Unbelievable highs.My favorite tube. Full sound with a huge soundstage. Excellent low level detail. Very natural sounding tube. I also listened to my ribbed plate version and only difference I could hear was it was dead silent, no hum, yay :)-

 

Mullard IEC 12AU7: Average bass. Wonderful mullard mids. I can always count on mullard to deliver in this area. Highs a touch harsh. Bit grainy. Good airy soundstage. Lacking transparency.

 

Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7 1960's Halo Getter: Excellent impact, great extension. Balanced mids. Crystal clear highs, no sibilance.WIDE soundstage! Very transparent. Musical, dynamic. WOW! Fantastic tube.

 

Raytheon 5814 Windmill Getter: I had heard so many good things about this one I was afraid it couldn't live up to my expectations, boy was I wrong! All that and a bag o chips. Transparent. Very wide soundstage. Great impact, good extension. Mids a touch dry (again, splittin' hairs). Highs rolled off ever so slightly and late. Musical, dynamic. Similar to BB but falls just a bit short.

 

RCA 5814 Black Plates Triple Mica; This one stunk up the joint. I love the 12Au7 version, but this one is just yuk. Maybe I got a bad tube but tests fine *shrug*  Average impact(that's being generous), good extension. Buttery mids. Highs are tame, rolled off. Descent soundstage. Smooth. Overall meh

 

RCA Cleartop 12AU7: Really nice all around tube. Close to perfect. Balanced. Solid impact, good extension. Nice mids. Perfect treble. No fatigue with this valve. So so soundstage, not bad. Musical.

 

RFT ECC82: Didn't like this one too much till I EQd it, which I don't like to do wit muh tubes. No Bottom end. Search all you want, it isn't there w/o EQ. Mids are flat and a touch distant. Highs are shrill and unbearable. Some would call me a basshead FWIW ;)  It's got a good 20 hours on it, if it gets better I will update. Tube flashes spectacularly when powered on, like teles, amperex and mullards. I'm mesmerized by that but isn't very relevant ;)-  

 

Sylvania 5814 Black Plates Triple Mica: Excellent, tight bass. Great extension. Bass and treble are out front. Highs are crisp. Not the most transparent. Good soundstage. Really nice tube.

 

RCA 12AX7: Like all my 12AX7s there is a loud hum that intensifies when my finger even thinks about going near it. Impressive bass, very aggressive sound. Mids and highs a little weak because bass is sooo strong. This tube is a bassheads delight. Maybe it's just me but I find all these AX7s distorted?

 

Mullard 12AT7 Blackburn: Had to manually bias this one. Could only get it down to 14.8V each channel. Nevertheless, a GREAT tube. Best mullard I've heard. Dynamic, detailed and full. Loads of bass slam, incredible impact. Not as good as RCA 12AX7 but very engaging. Mids are detailed, Smooth highs. No sibilance. Musical, Dynamic.

 

Chelmer CV4003: Creme de la creme. Took forever to find this one but whoa was it worth it. Musical. Excellent detail. Could listen for days :) Phenomenal extension and impact. Excellent grip. Mids are smoooth Treble is perfect. Everything is perfect...for me at least.

 

  Whew! Thats it for now. Still rollin' and taking notes. Not the best at describing sound but oh well. Hope it helps in some way, shape or formbeyersmile.png  Happy Tube Rolling!

post #143 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by adani View Post

I have purchased a used Brimar 12AU7 for my Horizon. Man, this thing is definitely better than stock 6N23P. Music just feels more alive, bass is more impactful and highs are more articulated. Actually, I can compare it to a DAC upgrade, when I moved from FiiO E17 to ODAC smily_headphones1.gif

 

Been listening for two days now before posting my impressions to verity that it is not a placebo effect.

  That sounds nice, glad you found a good tube. Now I have to get a brimar darthsmile.gif

post #144 of 356
Quote:

PSVANE 12AU7T

BACKGROUND NOISE  *****

DYNAMICS *****

STAGE *****

MICROPHONICS **** (SLIGHTLY CLINKY – YES THAT IS A TECHNICAL TERM)

GRIN FACTOR *****

BUILD QUALITY *****

NOTES: REALLY NICE TUBE – DYNAMIC YET NOT HARSH. COULD LISTEN TO IT ALL DAY. SADLY, IT IS IDENTICAL - SAVE THE GOLD PINS AND LETTERING TO A $7 CHINESE TUBE I HAVE HERE. ACTUALLY SOUNDS IDENTICAL TO ME (PROPS TO THE $7 TUBE!) THE PSVANE INTERNALS ARE ALIGNED BETTER TO NOTE. AND... THEY MEASURE VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

Running these right now, very satisfied! Kinda disappointed knowing that a 7 dollar tube is identical frown.gif

post #145 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post

The "Tubes Tour" concludes with Jeremy's impressions:

 

EDIT - Corrections:

 

Received the tubes from the tour the other day, appreciated! I did read previous reviews of what you guys thought quite awhile ago, but with my memory, that was long forgotten so will have to re-read. Here is what I thought if them and how I reviewed them. 

 

 

TESTED IN PROJECT EMBER - GOOD LORD AUTO BIAS AND VOLTAGE SELECTION IS NICE FOR ROLLING. TAKES ABOUT 10 SECONDS TO ADJUST. JUST POP A TUBE IN AND GO (SHAMELESS PLUG)

-           LOW INPUT GAIN SELECTED

-           CAPACITORS SET TO TC

-           OUTPUT RESISTANCE AT .1

-           SOURCE OPPO BDP93

-           TUBES RATED 1-5 STARS (5 BEING EXCELLENT)

-           DBV3 MODDED T50RP USED FOR TESTING

 

Wow, you already got the Ember, how does it sound compare to Sunrise?

post #146 of 356

Hmmm, I also just saw the Ember release, makes me wonder whether I shouldn't rather have waited? The PSII does sound fantastic on the HE-500 however! Can't really think that it needs more power or dynamics??

post #147 of 356
Jeremy and frans designed the ember and sunrise etc. I think that post was an email from jeremy. If thats true he would have one because he sells em. Last I checked they pushed back embers release. But what do i know?
post #148 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by stupidmop View Post

...

 

RCA 12AX7: Like all my 12AX7s there is a loud hum that intensifies when my finger even thinks about going near it. Impressive bass, very aggressive sound. Mids and highs a little weak because bass is sooo strong. This tube is a bassheads delight. Maybe it's just me but I find all these AX7s distorted?

 

... beyersmile.png  Happy Tube Rolling!

i find the gain of the 12ax7 to be too high for ps I and II, hence the distortion.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stupidmop View Post

Jeremy and frans designed the ember and sunrise etc. I think that post was an email from jeremy. If thats true he would have one because he sells em. Last I checked they pushed back embers release. But what do i know?

yeah, Jeremy gets the inside track on these ... LOL.

post #149 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by proid View Post

Wow, you already got the Ember, how does it sound compare to Sunrise?

Jeremy kindly sent me the Project Starlight and Project Ember to compare with my Project Sunrise II.  I will have some impressions in a couple of weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daerron View Post

Hmmm, I also just saw the Ember release, makes me wonder whether I shouldn't rather have waited? The PSII does sound fantastic on the HE-500 however! Can't really think that it needs more power or dynamics??

Ember is being shipped in finished form, presently, with kits available, soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stupidmop View Post

Jeremy and frans designed the ember and sunrise etc. I think that post was an email from jeremy. If thats true he would have one because he sells em. Last I checked they pushed back embers release. But what do i know?

Yes, that was Jeremy's review of my "Tubes Tour." Jeremy and Frans work magic for prices and with build quality way below their amps' and amp performance exceeding their low price point, IMO.


Edited by bluemonkeyflyer - 5/22/13 at 1:47pm
post #150 of 356
Looking forward to your impressions! My PSii definitely requires a better DAC than the headphone output on my Macbook Air can provide.. I'm impressed with the detail retrieval so far.
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