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Schiit Magni Headphone Amplifier - Page 76

post #1126 of 2183

Has anyone here compared the Magni/Modi to Yulong U100 - since they are so similarly priced I thought it would be a logical comparison.

Cheers

post #1127 of 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

Most people do not have built-in SPL meters, and the subjective perception of loudness is not accurate at all, especially without very fast switching between sources, and it can easily be biased as well. It may sound stupid, but loudness and sound quality are indeed often confused, and the "volume knob bias" does exist; why do you think so many people hear higher gain - even higher digital gain that would give exactly the same sound with the volume control adjusted to match the level - as "better" sound ?

 

 

That would happen in an ideal world. In reality, audiophiles rarely match volume for the purpose of subjective comparisons by measurements, typically only by ear, and the levels can therefore be "off" by several dB. If you tried to compare it yourself, you would find that reducing the volume by even 3 dB is not that much of a loudness difference, if there is a few seconds of silence while switching, but it does sound "thinner" and "flatter".

 

 

You might be surprised at how many newbies use the O2 at high gain because it sounds "better", and then complain about the clipping.

Right on about volume bias STV. "Volume" can be added to music in many ways - recording, amp, speaker efficiency and tuning. What is so annoying is that this often means clipped recordings, clipping amps, clipped pre-outs, and on and on. I don't know what a pure listening experience is anymore, other than an acoustic concert with an audience of 1 in my backyard.

 

I also don't get why people are confusing volume, gain, power, SPL, and subjectivity so much. Controlling for all other factors, more power does not = better sound. It = more SPL, an objective, dispassionate fact.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

 

False. Check the equal-loudness contours. The louder the sound we hear is, the flatter our hearing frequency response gets, especially in the bass. This is why all of Headroom's lab measurements are done at 80dB and then equalized to compensate for curves at that volume.

 

It has nothing to do with power, it has to do with our ear canal resonances.


I am aware that human perception of sound is not "flat", and that our ears, being optimized for the frequencies of speech, require higher SPLs at certain low and high frequencies in order to create what is "to our ears" a flat response. But this process of adjusting for a perceived "loudness curve" is not done by amps. It is done at recording or post-processing levels.

 

This does not mean that more power = more or "better" bass. That is still false. More power = more SPL. You are assuming that volume, gain, and frequency response are all carefully controlled at the amplifier level, which is wrong. You are also assuming that loudness is always considered subjectively superior - do you have grandparents? Either their hearing is shot, or they would never in a million years go to a concert. Compensation for our natural hearing deficiency is also controlled at the recording and speaker level. An Amplifier *should* have a flat frequency response at all power levels, because its job is to take a signal, add gain or amplify it, and output that signal through a speaker. The speaker, being the most distorted piece of the audio chain, will play it back at whatever frequency response it has.

 

I think you misunderstand that two amps, of two different power levels (e.g. 50 watt and 100 watt), volume matched, all other things equal, will sound the same. One difference is that the 100 watt amp will, in theory, provide higher SPL. The increased volume, according to you, "will sound better". So, you are conflating SPL with sound quality, which is wrong. I thought my point was obvious, which is that more amp power is more power, not more "subjective enjoyment".

post #1128 of 2183

Have to say, this thing is a noise magnet for me.

I've been trying to figure out for weeks why I get bass distortion/crackling or rattling from my Tony Bennett/DJ100 headphone. My only idea is that it's caused by excessive noise and poor shielding on my wires. It DOES NOT occur on any other amps or when used without the Magni.

 

I noticed that when I had my cheap Cardas cable attached to my headphone I could rotate the volume knob and it felt like I was adjusting a radio dial. You'd pick up all sort of weird noises. On other cables it was a little more silent. I would say it's the worst on this Monoprice thin cable I have. Not sure why.

 

I then switched my ODAC's USB cable to one with a ferrite bead. This seemed to cut the noise about 75%. It's only audible with my DJ100 when the volume is really high.

 

Surprisingly I have this $20 Monster cable that's extremely well shielded and the noise is almost inaudible. Inside the wire has metal shielding.

 

I get no bass issues or crackling or anything. I couldn't figure out why the Cardas and Monoprice cables caused this issue.

 

My interconnect is Mogami and it has tons of good shielding. Triple checked that.

 

One idea I also had was to get a Ferrite Bead for the power cable too and see what that does.

 

I can't use this on a surge protector with noise filtering because it degrades the sound.

 

My Micro Amp and my E9 were dead silent, so I don't know why this one is so noisy with my 38ohm DJ100.

 

Right now I think I've got it corrected mostly, but it sure was strange.

post #1129 of 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

Have to say, this thing is a noise magnet for me.

I've been trying to figure out for weeks why I get bass distortion/crackling or rattling from my Tony Bennett/DJ100 headphone. My only idea is that it's caused by excessive noise and poor shielding on my wires. It DOES NOT occur on any other amps or when used without the Magni.

 

I noticed that when I had my cheap Cardas cable attached to my headphone I could rotate the volume knob and it felt like I was adjusting a radio dial. You'd pick up all sort of weird noises. On other cables it was a little more silent. I would say it's the worst on this Monoprice thin cable I have. Not sure why.

 

I then switched my ODAC's USB cable to one with a ferrite bead. This seemed to cut the noise about 75%. It's only audible with my DJ100 when the volume is really high.

 

Surprisingly I have this $20 Monster cable that's extremely well shielded and the noise is almost inaudible. Inside the wire has metal shielding.

 

I get no bass issues or crackling or anything. I couldn't figure out why the Cardas and Monoprice cables caused this issue.

 

My interconnect is Mogami and it has tons of good shielding. Triple checked that.

 

One idea I also had was to get a Ferrite Bead for the power cable too and see what that does.

 

I can't use this on a surge protector with noise filtering because it degrades the sound.

 

My Micro Amp and my E9 were dead silent, so I don't know why this one is so noisy with my 38ohm DJ100.

 

Right now I think I've got it corrected mostly, but it sure was strange.

I have the DJ200, which is basically the same thing, and I just plugged it in and had none of the symptoms you just described.

post #1130 of 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjames View Post

I have the DJ200, which is basically the same thing, and I just plugged it in and had none of the symptoms you just described.

 

Must be because the DJ200 has very good shielding for it's cable. My Tony Bennett version doesn't have the original (removable) cable.

 

So no random noise/hiss when you increase the volume without any music being played?

 

With this crappy monster cable there is none now. It cleared right up.

 

I still get that annoying crackling/rattling when I use a poor shielded cable. Bizarre!

 

I think this might be what I get for living in an old house with noisy/old wiring. That's my only idea.

 

Now now it's mostly gone. Not sure why I only get this on the Magni though.

 

I'm now a believer this Magni is mostly dead neutral. Not sure how it seemed to magically smoother itself out after a week of use. I now use it for gaming mostly.

 

What's hilarious is I tried a Livewire Brand cable from Guitar Center and it hisses at me like from any volume level.

 

There's a surge protector with filtering i've found at a local store that shouldn't degrade the sound. It's a Furman and i'll try that tomorrow.

 

Magni+ODAC and the DJ100 is really impressive though!

 

BTW it makes no sense how I get noise from the headphone's cable.

post #1131 of 2183

I'm spoiled....

I think the M&M are going back for the 15% hit.

 

For what the cost, they're great.  If you are used to listing to something better.... not so great.

I can't get past that.

post #1132 of 2183

Mine is on it's way back today too, though for replacement not return.

 

I did do more testing and came to find the left channel imbalance remains present even at 10 o'clock and beyond on the pot.  The weird thing was, between 7 and 8 o'clock, the channel imbalance is to the right.  Then as the left comes in (a bit at or after 8), it takes over and dominates the right.
 

I tested with the wall wart straight to the wall, I tried a different set of rca cables into the Magni, I listened to different content/sources, and the imbalance was still there.

 

Anyway, looking forward to trying out the replacement.

post #1133 of 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnothim View Post

I'm spoiled....

I think the M&M are going back for the 15% hit.

 

For what the cost, they're great.  If you are used to listing to something better.... not so great.

I can't get past that.

Define "better".. normal_smile%20.gif
You mean the Lyr+Bifrost? Is the Magni and Modi too "cold and analytical" for you?

I have the Headroom Micro and it's not too dramatically different than the Magni now.

A little fuller sounding, but not warm and still very transparent IMO.

 

I don't know why so many people have really expensive and amazing amps and then get the Magni expecting it to destroy them (not that you did!).

 

I mean if it's transparent..what else were they expecting?

 

Luckily I have my Magni being used for a gaming amp and i sold my E9 and kept the Magni. I think I only got $55 from the E9. Yuck.

 

I only have one complaint about the Magni, but part of the blame is my old house and crappy wiring.

 

Still need to try the Lyr...maybe someday.

post #1134 of 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnothim View Post

I'm spoiled....

I think the M&M are going back for the 15% hit.

 

For what the cost, they're great.  If you are used to listing to something better.... not so great.

I can't get past that.

 

"Better" is subjective of course, especially when you are talking about solid-state vs tubes.  biggrin.gif

So do you prefer the Lyr/Bifrost vs. the Magni/Modi?


Edited by USAudio - 2/1/13 at 4:32pm
post #1135 of 2183
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnothim View Post

I'm spoiled....
I think the M&M are going back for the 15% hit.

For what the cost, they're great.  If you are used to listing to something better.... not so great.
I can't get past that.

I'm not surprised, since you were pairing them with the LCD2s and you had the Lyr/Bifrost as a direct comparison. The LCD2s can easily resolve the differences in upstream source components. With the HD650s, the differences are a bit less noticeable, or maybe less objectionable. The Magni can power the LCD2's, but along with the Modi--there's noticeably less resolution, dynamics and control compared to the higher level Schiit.
post #1136 of 2183

To all of the above.

Yes.

 

I knew the M/M would not compare to my upstairs kit of Bifrost/Lyr/LCD2's   Great tubes, no less.

My thinking was for a moderately used office setup the M/M & LCD2's should be ok.

 

duh.  The sound coming from the LCD2's is entirely different with the M/M and my mind can't deal with it.

It's not a bad sound.  Just very different.

Solid state v tubes, colder, analytical are all good descriptors.  I'm more fatigued after long listening periods.

The wow factor from my HD Tracks flac music is gone.  Flat...flatish. 

 

Again, I am not saying they are bad, or wrong.  They drive the LCD2's with a fraction of the volume knob.

I need to be real.  It's $200 v $1,000 (inc. tubes).  I know that's not the best yardstick, but one can't ignore it.

 

When the cans settle on my head I'm expecting one experience and I get another.

post #1137 of 2183

Bit of a semi-off-topic rant, but I've been keeping an eye on the FS forums lately and have been seeing Magni amps (or Magni/Modi combos as the case might be) listed at ridiculously high prices - typically about only $5 or $10 off. Geez, what's with the ultra-stingy selling tactics? Who's going to bother buying a used Magni that's only $10 off?! And most of these sellers want to charge extra for PayPal and/or shipping. At used prices like that, it makes way more sense to buy new instead. The used prices have to drop substantially more for it to make any sense to buy used instead of new. I can't believe sellers think $10 off is supposed to be a deal. I saw a M&M combo deal the other day for a mere $10 off and extra for PayPal, WTF is wrong with people?! I seriously can't believe there are ultra-stingy Head-Fiers who manage to scrape out "only" $99 for a Magni and then try to turn around and sell it for $10 off. How is that supposed to be a deal?! /end rant

 

On an on-topic note, I find that the Magni is a serious value at $99. I could pretty easily pick it apart sonically (let's just say that I'm not really impressed by it all that much sonically), but for $99, it's a no-question hands-down steal. I'd recommend it to anyone who has only the smallest budget for an amp. Although I'd call it the bare minimum as an amp for dynamic headphones, it's a good bare minimum. wink.gif

post #1138 of 2183

I wonder how the M&M stack would compare to my old desktop setup of a LittleDot I+ (rolled tubes and OpAmp) being fed with a UDAC and going out to my K702.  I really did like that setup, but sold it off to go with a more portable solution.  Now I'm finding I'm not really taking that around so much, and would like another desktop setup.

post #1139 of 2183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

Bit of a semi-off-topic rant, but I've been keeping an eye on the FS forums lately and have been seeing Magni amps (or Magni/Modi combos as the case might be) listed at ridiculously high prices - typically about only $5 or $10 off. Geez, what's with the ultra-stingy selling tactics? Who's going to bother buying a used Magni that's only $10 off?! And most of these sellers want to charge extra for PayPal and/or shipping. At used prices like that, it makes way more sense to buy new instead. The used prices have to drop substantially more for it to make any sense to buy used instead of new. I can't believe sellers think $10 off is supposed to be a deal. I saw a M&M combo deal the other day for a mere $10 off and extra for PayPal, WTF is wrong with people?! I seriously can't believe there are ultra-stingy Head-Fiers who manage to scrape out "only" $99 for a Magni and then try to turn around and sell it for $10 off. How is that supposed to be a deal?! /end rant

 

On an on-topic note, I find that the Magni is a serious value at $99. I could pretty easily pick it apart sonically (let's just say that I'm not really impressed by it all that much sonically), but for $99, it's a no-question hands-down steal. I'd recommend it to anyone who has only the smallest budget for an amp. Although I'd call it the bare minimum as an amp for dynamic headphones, it's a good bare minimum. wink.gif

zacly

 

And.... that's the rub when you buy a pair.

You immediately take a 30% elevator ride down if you want to sell them.  Maybe more.


Edited by Iamnothim - 2/2/13 at 10:40am
post #1140 of 2183

Anyone using the Magni with HD 600s?  I have a pair of HD 600s and a pair of Sextetts.  The Sextetts have always been hard to drive since I don't have a dedicated headphone amp.  I would like to find something to cover the bases with both of my cans.  I realize this an entry level amp, but I can't budget for too much else at the moment.

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