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Schiit Magni Headphone Amplifier - Page 74

post #1096 of 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

More SPL = more perceived bass, though, which is an important source of these misconceptions. When comparing amplifiers without accurate level matching, the setting of volume controls is likely to be biased towards equal volume control position, therefore the more powerful amp with (typically) higher gain will be louder and sound "better".


Ummmmmm No.

 

More SPL = More SPL. It doesn't = More or Less Bass. I get the "perception" notion, but you would seriously have to be a bit of a dummy not to notice that loudness was different and assume it had nothing to do with the volume knob!

 

Level matching amps for comparison sake is good practice. But if a "more powerful amp" with a "higher gain" sounds "louder", well then, guess what? You apparently haven't level matched! If you had, Amp A and AMP B would be producing the same SPL on the same Speaker, and the user could decide if there was a difference in the sound. Then they would feel stupid for buying the amp that had a wicked High Gain and clipped at home, or which, driven hard, produced enough "power" but was also distorting.

 

More Power = More SPL.

 

If the speaker can take it, and the user wants it, more power = good. But Amps serve a utilitarian purpose FIRST and foremost. More Power does not = more bass. Most people don't realize that they probably only use a fraction of an Amps rated power at any given time. Volume is lower, but "bass" is exactly as it should be.

post #1097 of 2128

Has there been any feedback from Schiit (Jason) regarding the amps with crooked volume controls?

Is it just a matter of the knob being put on incorrectly or is the pot itself soldered to the board misaligned?

 

Is the Magni knob simply pressed on?  It must be, I don't see any tightening screw? 

Has anyone pulled the knob off to verify the pot shaft itself is misaligned?

post #1098 of 2128

This thread is quite long and I'm just looking for a quick answer. How well does the M/M stack power LCD2 rev2s? I currently have HE400s and was entertaining the idea of grabbing some LCD2's... Any input would be awesome!

post #1099 of 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooPoor View Post

This thread is quite long and I'm just looking for a quick answer. How well does the M/M stack power LCD2 rev2s? I currently have HE400s and was entertaining the idea of grabbing some LCD2's... Any input would be awesome!

 

More than enough power and sounds quite good. Other, more expensive equipment quite possibly drives them even better, but the M&M certainly aren't a bad starting point with the LCD-2s.

post #1100 of 2128

Ummmmmm No.

 

More SPL = More SPL. It doesn't = More or Less Bass. I get the "perception" notion, but you would seriously have to be a bit of a dummy not to notice that loudness was different and assume it had nothing to do with the volume knob!

 

Level matching amps for comparison sake is good practice. But if a "more powerful amp" with a "higher gain" sounds "louder", well then, guess what? You apparently haven't level matched! If you had, Amp A and AMP B would be producing the same SPL on the same Speaker, and the user could decide if there was a difference in the sound. Then they would feel stupid for buying the amp that had a wicked High Gain and clipped at home, or which, driven hard, produced enough "power" but was also distorting.

 

More Power = More SPL.

 

If the speaker can take it, and the user wants it, more power = good. But Amps serve a utilitarian purpose FIRST and foremost. More Power does not = more bass. Most people don't realize that they probably only use a fraction of an Amps rated power at any given time. Volume is lower, but "bass" is exactly as it should be.

 

False. Check the equal-loudness contours. The louder the sound we hear is, the flatter our hearing frequency response gets, especially in the bass. This is why all of Headroom's lab measurements are done at 80dB and then equalized to compensate for curves at that volume.

 

It has nothing to do with power, it has to do with our ear canal resonances.


Edited by Tus-Chan - 1/29/13 at 10:55am
post #1101 of 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

More SPL = More SPL. It doesn't = More or Less Bass. I get the "perception" notion, but you would seriously have to be a bit of a dummy not to notice that loudness was different and assume it had nothing to do with the volume knob!

 

Most people do not have built-in SPL meters, and the subjective perception of loudness is not accurate at all, especially without very fast switching between sources, and it can easily be biased as well. It may sound stupid, but loudness and sound quality are indeed often confused, and the "volume knob bias" does exist; why do you think so many people hear higher gain - even higher digital gain that would give exactly the same sound with the volume control adjusted to match the level - as "better" sound ?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

 

Amp A and AMP B would be producing the same SPL on the same Speaker, and the user could decide if there was a difference in the sound.

 

That would happen in an ideal world. In reality, audiophiles rarely match volume for the purpose of subjective comparisons by measurements, typically only by ear, and the levels can therefore be "off" by several dB. If you tried to compare it yourself, you would find that reducing the volume by even 3 dB is not that much of a loudness difference, if there is a few seconds of silence while switching, but it does sound "thinner" and "flatter".

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMateoHead View Post

 

Amp A and AMP B would be producing the same SPL on the same Speaker, and the user could decide if there was a difference in the sound. Then they would feel stupid for buying the amp that had a wicked High Gain and clipped at home, or which, driven hard, produced enough "power" but was also distorting.

 

You might be surprised at how many newbies use the O2 at high gain because it sounds "better", and then complain about the clipping.


Edited by stv014 - 1/29/13 at 11:07am
post #1102 of 2128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooPoor View Post

This thread is quite long and I'm just looking for a quick answer. How well does the M/M stack power LCD2 rev2s? I currently have HE400s and was entertaining the idea of grabbing some LCD2's... Any input would be awesome!


If you're getting the LCD2.2s, I'd look into a better dac/amp combo.  Yes, the M&M will power the LCD2s, but will limit the quality of the sound. The LCDs deserve a better source.

post #1103 of 2128
post #1104 of 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post

Yes, the M&M will power the LCD2s, but will limit the quality of the sound. The LCDs deserve a better source.

What are you basing that on? Better as in more expensive? Price has not much to do with audio performance.

post #1105 of 2128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

What are you basing that on? Better as in more expensive? Price has not much to do with audio performance.


Better as in higher quality.  I'm basing it on extensive comparisons done with the LCD2.2s, Mjolnir, Lyr, Magni, Gungnir, and Modi--all of which I own. Some LCD2.2 owners are happy with the Magni & Modi combination, but it isn't a combination I recommend because in direct comparison, it's clear the M&M are the weakest links in the signal chain.  I think they're lovely pieces of gear, but if someone wants the most out of their LCD2s, they're not a great match.

post #1106 of 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

You might be surprised at how many newbies use the O2 at high gain because it sounds "better", and then complain about the clipping.

 

Not just the O2. I'm surprised at just how consistently I can fool myself with this, using any amp.

post #1107 of 2128

The Magni seems to be the cleanest of that bunch and has more than enough power. There's also the O2, which is even cleaner.

 

No, I don't believe in "synergy". Use signal processing to shape the sound the way you like, not DACs/amps.

post #1108 of 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post


Better as in higher quality.  I'm basing it on extensive comparisons done with the LCD2.2s, Mjolnir, Lyr, Magni, Gungnir, and Modi--all of which I own. Some LCD2.2 owners are happy with the Magni & Modi combination, but it isn't a combination I recommend because in direct comparison, it's clear the M&M are the weakest links in the signal chain.  I think they're lovely pieces of gear, but if someone wants the most out of their LCD2s, they're not a great match.

Quite possibly true, but personally I'd still opt for the M&M with something like the LCD-2 versus, say, Bifrost and Lyr with some mid-fi cans, since personally I think the cans by far make the most difference.


Oh, and just a general suggestion, it might help the rest of us if you listed some of your gear in your profile or something so people would at least know what you're comparing things to smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by Defiant00 - 1/29/13 at 3:14pm
post #1109 of 2128

My Schiit Modi and Magni arrived.

 

Cabled them up to a Mac Mini using Amarra as a player.

Audeze LCD2 with a stock cable.

I used my Furman AC-215a for power conditioning.

 

Coming from a Lyr / Bifrost this pair is very impressive.

They have all the power I need. 8 o'clock on the knob.

 

As expected they aren't nearly as dynamic as the Lyr, but sound damn good to me.

post #1110 of 2128
Try without power conditioner and just off the wall
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