What should I buy next? SR-009? - Page 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icenine2 

Yes it is.  That is why this thread is in the High-End Forum.  Just like you could spend $100K+ or multiples there of on a speaker rig blinking your eyes if you know what you want.

Yes... But this "$100K+ or multiples" speaker equipment may give very poor results if the listening room isn't properly treated. And such a treatment may cost even more, with rather uncertain results -acoustics isn't as straight as maths. Another argument in favor of headphones !

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackskelly 

Thanks forbigger and everyone else for their replies. I know the speakers vs. headphones issue has been discussed a lot, but I do think I've settled on having both speakers and headphones. It will take years I imagine for me to move up to a speaker set up like what forbigger described (I'm only a few years out of college and just beginning my career), so I'll probably try to get a setup like the SR-009/BHSE first (which still might be a while from now), and then start investing in a high-end speaker set-up (because it will almost certainly cost more).

 

Jacks

Still got student loans/cc/personal debt? SR-009 is a waste of time/money if it puts you further into debt. Your source and amp are seriously lacking for HD800. I would upgrade those first before you waste your money on the 009.

Actually as a general observation, I see a general trend of entry/mid-level source paired with ultra premium headphones, such as 009, for the past few years. As a result, most of the so called "hi-end" headphone setup are not really being put to good use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil95 

Yes... But this "$100K+ or multiples" speaker equipment may give very poor results if the listening room isn't properly treated. And such a treatment may cost even more, with rather uncertain results -acoustics isn't as straight as maths. Another argument in favor of headphones !

Absolutely!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil95 

Yes... But this "$100K+ or multiples" speaker equipment may give very poor results if the listening room isn't properly treated. And such a treatment may cost even more, with rather uncertain results -acoustics isn't as straight as maths. Another argument in favor of headphones !

Move spkrs away from walls and move your butt closer so you listen in near-field. I would pick my spkr over any headphone any time of the day. Nothing like "seeing" people perform live in your living room with real presence and transparency.

People should stop kid themselves about headphone as true high-end audio. Headphone system can never be high-end as there is no real sound stage to speak of. The most you get is sound that closely surrounds you and you feel like the sound is coming from outside the headphone. In that respect, I feel high-end source is lost on a headphone system, in my experience. The difference between a 20k DAC and a 5K DAC is in the soundstage, realism, positioning, momentum of the sound and transparency. You may be able to pick up few of these attributes with your headphone, depending on how good your listening skill is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert 

I would pick my spkr over any headphone any time of the day. Nothing like "seeing" people perform live in your living room with real presence and transparency.

I "see" people all the time with my headphones. Just that it's a different "vision" to what I get from my loudspeakers.

It's okay to prefer one over the other, but it's ridiculous to claim that headphones can't be high end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert 

Move spkrs away from walls and move your butt closer so you listen in near-field. Nothing like "seeing" people perform live in your living room with real presence and transparency.

 

I agree. My Meridian/Harbeth rig is simply sublime used this way, but I wouldn't necessarily choose speakers over headphones. I also agree with posters who advocate upgrading your source/amp first. The HD800 really deserves better. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney 

I "see" people all the time with my headphones. Just that it's a different "vision" to what I get from my loudspeakers.

 

It's okay to prefer one over the other, but it's ridiculous to claim that headphones can't be high end.

99% of the existing recordings are not meant to be heard using headphone. They are mixed to be enjoyed on a 2-channel speaker system. Therefore, unless you are talking about listening to binaural recording, headphones present too great of a compromise to be called high-end.

I also don't think you understand what "seeing" is. Don't worry, I felt the same way few years back. You will come around, given enough time and a good enough spkr rig, which incidentally do not need to be very expensive (buying used) if you know how to pick for/setup speakers in your room. Bigger/expensive != better sound in your room.

One more point, OP should also understand the effects of hedonic adoption before embarking on the 009/BHSE journey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackskelly 

Explain to me, what is that journey exactly?

Throwing down 12k on a system that you will just "get used to it" in 6 months time. It won't feel that special any more and your happiness level goes back to your current level and you are looking for the next "side" grade.

Edit:

Forgot to add, you need a new source. For a 12K system, throwing another 8K for a quality source (not the premium stuff, just good performance/value), and you are at $20K. Let's also not forget power supply-related products and other feet/damper, rack, etc. I seriously hope you have no outstanding loans and are not going into debt buying these things (using trust fund is ok).

I agree that headphones are a compromise for music listening.  I'd listen to my monitors if I could never mind the rig I had before kids over headphones.  Also agree somewhere along the way we stopped smacking people up side the head when they pair great headphones to mediocre rigs.

Who else remembers the HD600 needing a $2000 source and amp to begin to scale?  Now people buy the HD800 and an O stack and make a manly pose.  Sigh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude 

I agree that headphones are a compromise for music listening.  I'd listen to my monitors if I could never mind the rig I had before kids over headphones.  Also agree somewhere along the way we stopped smacking people up side the head when they pair great headphones to mediocre rigs.

 

Who else remembers the HD600 needing a $2000 source and amp to begin to scale?  Now people buy the HD800 and an O stack and make a manly pose.  Sigh.

+1

-Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert 

I also don't think you understand what "seeing" is. Don't worry, I felt the same way few years back. You will come around, given enough time and a good enough spkr rig, which incidentally do not need to be very expensive (buying used) if you know how to pick for/setup speakers in your room. Bigger/expensive != better sound in your room.

After 20+ years of owning high end speaker-based systems, I feel I probably do know what you mean, but to get back to the OP...

Some people can migrate more easily than others from the "true" 3D loudspeaker sound stage to the initially disconcerting head stage. Nobody else can tell you how you will get on with that transition. There's factors above sound stage to consider - e.g. Operakid's post on page 1.

For me, the head stage can become magical with my 007 setup, but as chesebert also alluded to, you have to work at it with ALL aspects of the system. For example, I've found that a high end Power Conditioner has greatly improved the magic for me. With loudspeakers, you have to faff around with positioning of speakers and sweet spots. With headphones you don't have that particular issue, but instead it seems to be even more important to carefully choose the rest of your system - because the head stage doesn't become truly magic until you've removed any upper frequency noise and "grain" that gets directly injected into your ears. And that, unfortunately, usually costs lots of money.    

One area that still doesn't quite do it for me on headphones though, is large scale orchestral music. However good the head stage gets, it can't quite recreate that scale.

Smyth Realiser...............

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney 

After 20+ years of owning high end speaker-based systems, I feel I probably do know what you mean, but to get back to the OP...

 

Some people can migrate more easily than others from the "true" 3D loudspeaker sound stage to the initially disconcerting head stage. Nobody else can tell you how you will get on with that transition. There's factors above sound stage to consider - e.g. Operakid's post on page 1.

 

For me, the head stage can become magical with my 007 setup, but as chesebert also alluded to, you have to work at it with ALL aspects of the system. For example, I've found that a high end Power Conditioner has greatly improved the magic for me. With loudspeakers, you have to faff around with positioning of speakers and sweet spots. With headphones you don't have that particular issue, but instead it seems to be even more important to carefully choose the rest of your system - because the head stage doesn't become truly magic until you've removed any upper frequency noise and "grain" that gets directly injected into your ears. And that, unfortunately, usually costs lots of money.    

 

One area that still doesn't quite do it for me on headphones though, is large scale orchestral music. However good the head stage gets, it can't quite recreate that scale.

Quite possibly . I'd like to try one out one day