Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › BA$$ - Own AH-D2000, on to Ultrasone Pro 900 & HFI-580
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

BA$$ - Own AH-D2000, on to Ultrasone Pro 900 & HFI-580

Poll Results: Denon AH-D2000 or Ultrasone Pro 900

 
  • 40% (4)
    Denon AH-D2000
  • 60% (6)
    Ultrasone Pro 900
10 Total Votes  
post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Greetings,

 

So I've had the Denon AH-D2000's for 8 or so months.  It's pretty cool they are now $500 from Amazon.  They are sweet, but I feel intense equalizing is required for enjoyable sound.  I love bass, not crappy bass, usually like 60 Hz and below.

 

Honestly without EQing, I'd never use these D2000's cause I think they sound awful.  They sounds flat and lifeless.  When I boost the good stuff they jump to the ridiculously awesome category.  They can output bass for days, deep WTF bass.  Here's an idea of the Bass in Yo Face I like...

 

 

 

I also have the Fiio E17 (Alpen) amp and use a variable about of bass boost from the built in EQ, but it seems to boost mid bass quite a bit too, so I don't care for that much.

 

Anyways, I'm thinking I want to try out some new headphones.  Frankly, I don't have a good reason.  I don't like insanely bright headphones at all (think Sennheiser HD-580's).  I'd also use my D2000's more but I don't like the 10' climbing rated headphone cord, so detachable would be cool.  Plus, can't you get cords with mics and audio controls integrated for detachable cables? (Suggestions on replacement cords?)

 

My top pics for some new cans are as follows:

-Ultrasone Pro 900 (Have heard that they are bright but has life inspiring bass.)

-Ultrasone HFI-580 (Cheap and excellent bass, but permanent cord.)

-V-MODA M-100 (Previously looked at Crossfade LP's, are these possibly better than Ultrasones?)

 

So I'm honestly planning on ordering a pair of Ultrasone Pro 900's & HFI-580's this week.  One or both will be getting returned if they don't cut it.

 

I have a pair of Aerial7 Chopper2's and I kinda love them.  They have a 4' single sided cord with mic and answer button, pretty awesome bass down to 5 Hz and can be driven with phone.  I also have a friend with Audio-Technica ATH-M50S and says he loves them, but I doubt they are better than the D2000's or Ultrasone's but will give them listen.

 

So thoughts would be appreciated.

post #2 of 26

Heya,

 

The way I'm reading this, you want stupid levels of bass, and you're going towards headphones that have less sub-bass presence than your Denon does. The PRO900 has monstrous mid-bass, but it's sub-bass isn't that superb, and I actually prefer the Denon D5000's sub-bass to the PRO900 by quite a bit, and ended up leaving the PRO900 in the dust. Plus the PRO900 has dumb amounts of treble spiking naturally. Denon just does sub-bass better to me. The HFI580 isn't going to give you the same sub-bass, it's there, but the Denon presents it better. The M100 isn't going to make your eyes bulge with bass either, no more so than the HFI580 will. The M50 is a toy compared to what you already have, ignore they exist.

 

End of the day, it sounds like you just want ridiculous levels of sub-bass. And it's not going to happen with headphones.

 

One thing you can try, however, is to properly equalize for a better bass, a higher quality sound, higher volume where you want it, with less distortion. You're equalizing by raising what you want up when instead you should be equalizing everything else down. So for example if you want more sub-bass, you don't raise sub-bass, you instead drop the other frequencies by a few negative dB, and drop the treble that you don't like even further. This ends up being just what you did, but it keeps it from straining and pushing beyond what it was designed to do and will distort less, you'll get a better overall sound from your equalization for the volume. Try this first. And then apply the E17's bass boost (hard +3 db bass boost) if you want to play with it more. You'll get more bass doing this than simply buying a new headphone, honestly, as not much can do what Denon already does with sub-bass frankly. It's why even though I have tons of headphones and some flagships, I still keep my Denon D5000 handy because it's my favorite "bass" headphone out of everything, and I've done it all in terms of bassy headphones at this point. But that's just my preference.

 

At this point, I would only point you two directions. You can get into a simple $50 Sony XB500 and equalize it to your pleasure, it has the highest sub-bass around really, and costs peanuts. The other direction is to go ortho, and grab some Mr Speaker Mad Dogs, and get some Stax Pads (these are not cheap), and start looking to mod, or have someone mod them, to have bass focused dampening and then equalize it how you want it to be. These can handle very low sub-bass better than Denons can frankly and they're too terribly pricey if you think about the quality of everything you get with them; this would be the expensive way to get a bassy "good" headphone.

 

Very best,


Edited by MalVeauX - 12/6/12 at 5:58pm
post #3 of 26

I kind of agree on the Sony XB-series (whether you pick the 500 or 700 is up to you). The problem here is that your Denons are better at sub bass than the Pro 900s. Ultrasone Pro 900 is more of a "refined basshead can" that, while it's bassy alright, won't satisfy you. When I want that deep bass I always pick the D2000s for the bass and when I listen to EDM/EBM I pick the Pro 900 but not for the bass. The bass capabilities of the Pro 900s, are imho, a bit exaggerated over here. Yes, they are bassy and handles it pretty well, but it's their overall sonic characteristics that makes it good for some music. Also, imho, the Pro 900 locks you in to listening those particular ones that sound fantastic with them. The D2000 is a lot more forgiving.

 

Personally I'd recommend you to look at the XB-series. Also, apparently the Pro700mkII from Audio-Technica is supposed to be pretty bassy. While I haven't heard the beyerdynamics (DT 770, 990) they also have a reputation of being pretty bassy.

post #4 of 26

D2000 flat?  Sennheisers bright?  Something's wrong.

post #5 of 26

I've never heard the Denons, though I had looked into getting them. I can say that the ULTRASONE 900 I like for portable listening, using a LCD-2 for home use. I just put the 900s on with my RoCoo P and I quite like it. If my LCD-2 broke, I would have absolutely no problem using these while they were getting repaired. They just lack the ommph that great open headphones have but for the money they are awesome. I think they go with several genres but excel with trance and electronica. The bass on them is not crazy, but is pretty strong. I love great heavy bass and it satisfies me but if you are looking for crazy nutty head-banging bass, look elsewhere.

 

The stock cable sucks. I bought a Silver and Blue Dragon from Moon Audio. The Blue fixes any bright treble issues and has heavy bass but is closed in and not exciting...a safe sound is a good word. The Silver is brighter with more detailed bass and it can be heard in several songs. I am not a fan of spikey treble. It is just on borderline for annoyance with the Silver. The upside is much more air and detail. It's simply more exciting than the Blue...more alive. If you are scared of treble go with the Blue. They are both awesome. Silver is an all-rounder while Blue is too but really works for older music with low volume like the Beatles or something, music that lacks punch. Actually, listening to the Blue and then going back to the Silver, my ears are no longer bothered by the treble so I get used to the different signature. Coming straight from a different headphone though you can hear it.

 

All I can say is I love 'em. If you are looking for unbright and great bass, go with the 900 and a Blue Dragon. smile.gif


Edited by Deverica Wolf - 12/7/12 at 4:52am
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohnster View Post

Greetings,

 

So I've had the Denon AH-D2000's for 8 or so months.  It's pretty cool they are now $500 from Amazon.  They are sweet, but I feel intense equalizing is required for enjoyable sound.  I love bass, not crappy bass, usually like 60 Hz and below.

 

Honestly without EQing, I'd never use these D2000's cause I think they sound awful.  They sounds flat and lifeless.  When I boost the good stuff they jump to the ridiculously awesome category.  They can output bass for days, deep WTF bass.  Here's an idea of the Bass in Yo Face I like...

 

 

 

I also have the Fiio E17 (Alpen) amp and use a variable about of bass boost from the built in EQ, but it seems to boost mid bass quite a bit too, so I don't care for that much.

 

Anyways, I'm thinking I want to try out some new headphones.  Frankly, I don't have a good reason.  I don't like insanely bright headphones at all (think Sennheiser HD-580's).  I'd also use my D2000's more but I don't like the 10' climbing rated headphone cord, so detachable would be cool.  Plus, can't you get cords with mics and audio controls integrated for detachable cables? (Suggestions on replacement cords?)

 

My top pics for some new cans are as follows:

-Ultrasone Pro 900 (Have heard that they are bright but has life inspiring bass.)

-Ultrasone HFI-580 (Cheap and excellent bass, but permanent cord.)

-V-MODA M-100 (Previously looked at Crossfade LP's, are these possibly better than Ultrasones?)

 

So I'm honestly planning on ordering a pair of Ultrasone Pro 900's & HFI-580's this week.  One or both will be getting returned if they don't cut it.

 

I have a pair of Aerial7 Chopper2's and I kinda love them.  They have a 4' single sided cord with mic and answer button, pretty awesome bass down to 5 Hz and can be driven with phone.  I also have a friend with Audio-Technica ATH-M50S and says he loves them, but I doubt they are better than the D2000's or Ultrasone's but will give them listen.

 

So thoughts would be appreciated.

 

I love that kind of bass you like. I am a serious Basshead equalizing my D2000s to the max.

Though you won't find a Headphone that like gives you subwoofer bass you like without equalizing like a boss.

 

Get the XB500 than.

 

Other than that the Denon provides not only bass. The sound quality is superb.

I am glad i've bought my D2000s before they got discontinued.

 

 

Pro tip: Use the equalizer of your soundcard next to the ITunes EQ for maximum rattle.

Pro tip2: Use Hear.exe for maximum equalize. With that program you don't need the XB500s anymore.

http://www.prosofteng.com/products/hear.php

 

There are free versions too without day limits. Believe me, that program drives your D2000s insane.


Edited by Amperial - 12/7/12 at 7:05am
post #7 of 26

I would say that the PRO 900 isn't as sub-bass heavy as the D2000. The Denons have greater reach into the deeper sub-bass levels, and responds well to EQ-ing to bring out the rattling sub-bass that you crave. However, the mid-bass on the PRO 900 is more prominent and has more punch than the D2000 and HFI 580. If you love EDM, all 3 cans will deliver a very good listening experience, blending excellent bass levels with good highs. The Ultrasones tend to be quite sibilant though, and depending on your source/amp, will sound harsh at times.

 

If you want loads of mid-bass, you can try the XB500 and the Crossfade LPs. These cans will deliver huge gobs of mid-bass that will literally shake your headphones. And this is without any need for amping.

 

If sub-bass is what you want, and you like a whole load of it, you might want to try other sub-bass masters like the XB700 and PRO700MK2. The latter is good at handling amping/EQ-ing, and will deliver a good sub and mid-bass presentation.

post #8 of 26

If sub-bass is so desired, I'd think Audeze LCD-2 Rev. 2 should be in the scope.

 

If even the LCD-2 does not satisfy with its level of bass, then there is no other headphone in the entire market that can IMO.

post #9 of 26

I think he is after raw quantity of bass.  LCD2's bass is balanced.  I'm sure it can have ridiculous levels of sub-bass when massively EQ'd though.  The LCD can take a LOT of power.  So along with that EQ you need a really powerful amp.

post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

If sub-bass is so desired, I'd think Audeze LCD-2 Rev. 2 should be in the scope.

 

If even the LCD-2 does not satisfy with its level of bass, then there is no other headphone in the entire market that can IMO.

Have you seen the freq response of the LCD2s? the go deep but they are flat without any bass humps.

Good phone (one of my ideals) but not a basshead can if looking for boosted sub bass.

post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

If sub-bass is so desired, I'd think Audeze LCD-2 Rev. 2 should be in the scope.

 

If even the LCD-2 does not satisfy with its level of bass, then there is no other headphone in the entire market that can IMO.

 

Are there no headphones that could care less about fidelity, and are solely focused on bass? Are they poorer than the LCD-2 in the amount of bass they deliver, then?

 

I haven't had a chance to audition the LCD-2 before, but there are many who talk about how great its bass is. Are we talking about bass quality here, or quantity? I doubt that it'd be the latter, since basshead cans are generally frowned upon in the audiophile community.

 

In that sense, as an example, if an XB700 was made to be all about the bass, can't it deliver MORE sub-bass than the LCD-2, especially since it was bred that way?

 

Any opinions, folks? smile.gif

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malevolent View Post

 

Are there no headphones that could care less about fidelity, and are solely focused on bass? Are they poorer than the LCD-2 in the amount of bass they deliver, then?

 

I haven't had a chance to audition the LCD-2 before, but there are many who talk about how great its bass is. Are we talking about bass quality here, or quantity? I doubt that it'd be the latter, since basshead cans are generally frowned upon in the audiophile community.

 

In that sense, as an example, if an XB700 was made to be all about the bass, can't it deliver MORE sub-bass than the LCD-2, especially since it was bred that way?

 

Any opinions, folks? smile.gif

The bass is flat, the LCDs get alot of attention because there is 20hz performance (but no boost or dip) unlike alot of the higher end cans in the price range which have considerable bass rolloff. The XB700s will definatly have more bass than the LCD2s but i've found the XB series to be excessively muddy and the XB1000 to be lacking sub bass and to be too bright but muddy sounding. Trick is to find a pair of cans that still have good detail but not bright that has a level of boosted sub bass without being bright or too muddy.

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post

Have you seen the freq response of the LCD2s? the go deep but they are flat without any bass humps.

Good phone (one of my ideals) but not a basshead can if looking for boosted sub bass.

 

Well, as always, I'd say... frequency response doesn't tell the whole story.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malevolent View Post

 

Are there no headphones that could care less about fidelity, and are solely focused on bass? Are they poorer than the LCD-2 in the amount of bass they deliver, then?

 

I haven't had a chance to audition the LCD-2 before, but there are many who talk about how great its bass is. Are we talking about bass quality here, or quantity? I doubt that it'd be the latter, since basshead cans are generally frowned upon in the audiophile community.

 

In that sense, as an example, if an XB700 was made to be all about the bass, can't it deliver MORE sub-bass than the LCD-2, especially since it was bred that way?

 

Any opinions, folks? smile.gif

 

From my audition with the LCD-2 (rev 2), I'd say... it's both quality and quantity.

 

The thing is that... I think if you match sub-bass level, then the XB700 is sure to deliver "more" bass. But if you match treble level, then LCD-2 would easily put out more bass than any other can on the market.

 

And if all else fails, you can still EQ up the "flat" bass of the LCD-2, or use bass-boosting opamps/tubes.

post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 

Holy crap, MalVeauX!  I've discovered something that needs it's own topic thread (Dangers of iTunes Equalizer).  More on that in a minute.

 

I'd like to thank everyone for their input.  I've been through this thread a few times and given it serious thought.  Amperial, I've downloaded the EQ 'Hear' and am trying it out.  I do love bass, and I'm not being unreasonable about it.  The Denon AH-D2000's do provide enough bass, just require massive EQ-ing.

I did end up purchasing the Ultrasone Pro 900's & HFI-580's prior to all the opinions and suggestions coming in.  Out of the box they sounded fine.  I didn't find either to be particularly bright, but MalVeauX was spot about the intense mid-bass.  I'll tell you, for me the S-Logic makes a big difference, not necessarily good or bad.  What I noticed, was if the phones were pushed to the back or your ears it would be uncomfortably bright.  However if you had the cups centered on your ear, the sound was good and more balanced (obviously with a bit more bass).

I'm going to have to disagree with all the reviews I've read that said the Pro 900's bass is so strong and doesn't bleed into the higher frequencies.  I find the D2000's to remain much more clear at higher SPL's while still playing deeper.  The build quality of the Ultrasones is interesting.  They are made of plastic but feel nice enough, but compared to the Denon's with magnesium frames and ergonomic ear cups it's like an STi vs an M3.  Luxurious is how I'd describe the Denon's.  I love that the Pro 900's come with a hard-case, but would prefer it be half the thickness and I love the cable options (short makes it wonderful for portable).  The Ultrasone's will stay on your head while doing all sorts of things.  Think twice about dancing around with the Denon's ;-) and it's cord is too long and stiff (That's what she said).

Another thing that I noticed was that for the same volume input, the Ultrasones are louder which is interesting to me because of the listed sensitivity/impedance's.  The Pro 900's are 96 dB at 40 ohms and the D2000's are 106 dB at 25 ohms.

In the end, I'm prolly going to return the Ultrasones.  The Denon's do have better bass when EQ'd and I really like them.

I've wanted to try the XB-700's for a long time and hear that the XB-500's are better on some accounts.  I'd rather have the larger ear-cups of the XB-700's cause my ears get sore from extended use when being pressed.  The Audio-Technica ATH-PRO700MK2's mentioned, were on my short list for quite a while.  The $1,000 Audeze LCD-2 Rev. 2's are now on my radar, but a few light years off.

 

Okay, so back to this item that needs its own topic!  Dangers of iTunes Equalizer!  MalVeauX, suggested that I lower the unwanted frequencies, oppose to raising the wanted bass ones.  Well I took that suggestion to heart.  I re-worked all of my Denon specific EQs. dropping all the sliders till the highest was on the slider was on the 0 dB line and left the pre-amp at 0 dB.  Sudden when comparing with the Pro 900's and their EQ's, they seemed so much better than the D2000's.  After a few days I did some more tinkering.  Well I returned the D2000's EQ's to the original style of raising the frequencies I wanted, then reducing the pre-amp equal but opposite of the highest sliders dB.  The amazing D2000's came back.

 

Apparently the + & - dB adjustments in iTunes Equalizer aren't linear.  See the pic below, the '!Denon AH-D2000' was terrible (someone with good ears, try this out and describe the differences for everyone) while the '!Denon AH-D2000 2' sounds much much better.  I don't know if all EQ's act like this, but I will forever keep this in mind.

 

 

So yeah, that little iTunes tidbit is my community contribution (unless this has been discussed before, I didn't search).

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docks View Post

The bass is flat, the LCDs get alot of attention because there is 20hz performance (but no boost or dip) unlike alot of the higher end cans in the price range which have considerable bass rolloff. The XB700s will definatly have more bass than the LCD2s but i've found the XB series to be excessively muddy and the XB1000 to be lacking sub bass and to be too bright but muddy sounding. Trick is to find a pair of cans that still have good detail but not bright that has a level of boosted sub bass without being bright or too muddy.

 

That's what I think, too. Bassy cans like the XB700 can surely be tweaked to deliver greater mid-bass and deeper sub-bass reach, even at the cost of fidelity. I'm just wondering when people say the LCD-2/3 are real basshead cans - do they mean it purely from a sub-bass extension POV?

 

I agree that the XB-cans are quite muddy (but I like it that way), but there's no way these cans (and similar basshead monsters) can be said to have less bass than an LCD-2/3. After all, they were bred to deliver "extra bass".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

 

Well, as always, I'd say... frequency response doesn't tell the whole story.

 

 

From my audition with the LCD-2 (rev 2), I'd say... it's both quality and quantity.

 

The thing is that... I think if you match sub-bass level, then the XB700 is sure to deliver "more" bass. But if you match treble level, then LCD-2 would easily put out more bass than any other can on the market.

 

And if all else fails, you can still EQ up the "flat" bass of the LCD-2, or use bass-boosting opamps/tubes.

 

What do you mean by the phrase, "match treble level"? I'm sorry, but could you elaborate further, as I am a little confused. Thanks.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › BA$$ - Own AH-D2000, on to Ultrasone Pro 900 & HFI-580