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UE 900 vs. Grado GR10 - Page 3

post #31 of 44

I don't think W4 vs SM3 is about sound signature it is rather about technical proficiency but I understand you like your SM3s and I respect that. I don't think SM3s are bad at all(build quality is quite bad though), I just think (and I'm sure many would argue the same) that they not at the same level as W4s in every aspect. Btw I did extensive testing between W4, SM3 and UM3X for a month.

post #32 of 44

Well than we just disagree which is fine but I will agree that the SM3's build quality could be better thought my V2 isn't as bad as what most people say imo.  I don't see how you can say that the SM3 isn't at the same level as the W4 in all aspects, that's just not true and I don't see anyone that's heard both thinking that.  I didn't have a month with the W4 but 3 days with them and I probably spent 20 hours listening to them in that time is plenty.  Anyways you have your opinion I have mine but to say the W4 is better in everyway I feel is just wrong.

post #33 of 44

Agree with BQ on SM3 being LOUSY. One of two snapped in half, along the seam line, leaving the microdrivers & internal guts hanging by delicate internal wires. Eviscerated, if you'd like. Super glue to the rescue, but I have no clue if orig "seal" (if important to its acoustics) was recreated by my repair job.

This surprised me most of all 'cause -- after giving up on them for lack of engaging sonics (see prev. posts) -- I hardly use them. Essentially, then, they broke after less than 50 hrs active use.

Also warning (no surprise to SM3 owners) about tips coming off in ear canal when removing. The SM3 nozzle is smooth so it doesn't hold very well. 


Edited by alphaman - 12/15/12 at 11:50am
post #34 of 44

I agree that they're not built like a $400 IEM should be but you can't deny that they don't sound really good though.  I can see some not liking the sound signature because of how 3D the make everything sound but technically they're a very proficient IEM and I love the 3D presentation.

post #35 of 44

The 3D presentation is a bad thing?

 

That would be like saying 1080 resolution on a TV is bad versus 256

post #36 of 44

I dont think 3D presentation is the problem with SM3.  Like I said earlier, lack of transparency in the mids and lack of energy in the highs is the problem with them. Anyway enough of the SM3 :)

post #37 of 44

Back to PRAT, bass slam, attack/decay and similar qualitative descriptions ... animal drive is how one reviewer once described  this stuff. WRT to the SM3 (but only to put it in context for this thread's UE 900 and GR10), after purchase and 50hr break-in, I took them out on my usual bike/jog workout ... and felt a disappointing loss of motivation ... which was pleasantly restored when I went back to, e.g., the Teclast R8 IEM that came free with my T-51 DAP.

 

BTW ...  Test music doesn't have to be complex/dense/dynamic/violent, noted earlier. IME/IMO even the simple, linear pulse of a house or trance track can put the "animal driveness" quality to the test.


Edited by alphaman - 12/15/12 at 2:21pm
post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

The 3D presentation is a bad thing?

 

That would be like saying 1080 resolution on a TV is bad versus 256

 

To some people the SM3's 3D presentation doesn't sound natural so yes for those people it is a bad thing.

post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

The 3D presentation is a bad thing?

That would be like saying 1080 resolution on a TV is bad versus 256

A couple of notes regarding the analogy. 256 is not a resolution for TV. It'd be 480. And 1080 is a bad thing if you are watching a video that is formatted for 480p. In such a case, we'd call it unnatural (analogy to audio wink.gif).
post #40 of 44

Whatever...

 

I presumed 3D was a more "descriptive" and livelike way of hearing something versus the 1 dimensional presentation of, say...an Etymotic.

 

Either way, when I listen to music the sole purpose is to get an emotional kick period.  It is not about accuracy graphs and numbers. 

post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Whatever...

 

I presumed 3D was a more "descriptive" and livelike way of hearing something versus the 1 dimensional presentation of, say...an Etymotic.

 

Either way, when I listen to music the sole purpose is to get an emotional kick period.  It is not about accuracy graphs and numbers. 

 

Yes it is but the SM3's 3D presentation isn't exactly natural sounding compared to some other IEM's.  I feel the same as you do when listening to music but there are those that want a more natural presentation as where the SM3 can sound a bit artificial at times because the way the 3D presentation is.

post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Whatever...

 

I presumed 3D was a more "descriptive" and livelike way of hearing something versus the 1 dimensional presentation of, say...an Etymotic.

 

Either way, when I listen to music the sole purpose is to get an emotional kick period.  It is not about accuracy graphs and numbers. 

 

You are right in your statements here, I would't call 3D more descriptive though.  There reaches a point where the 3D effect is created entirely by the signature itself rather than being created in the actual soundtrack (source, file, song).  At this point, I regard it to becoming more artificial.  Artificial isn't a bad thing, the PFE232 has an artificial sound stage.  It's how artificial it can become before one is uncomfortable with it.  For different people, it'll be a different point.  

 

Too large of a sound stage can also take away from clarity and even detailing.  Think about it for a sec.  Sound stage is being able to place instruments further and closer to the listener.  What happens when the instrument goes way out?  Clarity and/or detailing can be lost.  Again, depending on how the soundstage is created and where will determine how much information is lost due to distancing issues.  

 

I will agree with the accuracy of graphs and numbers though.  A pair of headphones serves one soul purpose, to reproduce the properties of music in such a way that the listener feels it.  These properties become your emotion and message the music sends.  

 

All of the above, of course, is philosophical though (EG, my opinion).  You are free to hold your own.  

 

NOTE: Please take note that none of this has to do with whether or not the SM3 has natural/unnatural/etc sound stage (or any property for that matter).  It's a general idea, philosophy if you will.  I personally haven't heard the SM3, so don't want to comment on their sound ;)


Edited by tinyman392 - 12/15/12 at 6:51pm
post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

 

Too large of a sound stage can also take away from clarity and even detailing.  Think about it for a sec.  Sound stage is being able to place instruments further and closer to the listener.  What happens when the instrument goes way out?  Clarity and/or detailing can be lost.  Again, depending on how the soundstage is created and where will determine how much information is lost due to distancing issues.  

 

If this were 100% true wouldn't a UM3X (small soundstage, great instrument separation) be the pinnacle of IEM's?  Headphones generally have a much larger soundstage than IEM's.   One of my key criteria of a great IEM is how large is the soundstage in terms of can it sound almost like a headphone versus an IEM.  Not sure if you are familier with W3 but it has a huge soundstage and exceptional clarity.  Not sure how they do it but it is there and it is real and this is where BA's have a huge advantage over dynamic drivers in IEM's when you start using multiple drivers.  To me the cardinal sin of an IEM is when the presentation sounds directly wired to your brain with no sense of space.  That is very fatiguing and unatural IMHO.


Edited by Spyro - 12/15/12 at 7:48pm
post #44 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

If this were 100% true wouldn't a UM3X (small soundstage, great instrument separation) be the pinnacle of IEM's?  Headphones generally have a much larger soundstage than IEM's.   One of my key criteria of a great IEM is how large is the soundstage in terms of can it sound almost like a headphone versus an IEM.  Not sure if you are familier with W3 but it has a huge soundstage and exceptional clarity.  Not sure how they do it but it is there and it is real and this is where BA's have a huge advantage over dynamic drivers in IEM's when you start using multiple drivers.

 

I'm right there with you on that one.  Once I heard the TF10 for the first time every IEM I got after those that had a small soundstage I couldn't really enjoy most of them, all the music sounded to clustered together.  I also agree that multi driver BA's have a larger soundstage than MOST not all dynamic drivers plus I like the speed and clarity of BA's over most dynamics.

 

The thread has made one heck of a detour from the OP's  post. 


Edited by Techno Kid - 12/15/12 at 7:58pm
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