UE 900 vs. Grado GR10 - Page 2

Rude much? W4 is already in this thread so where have you been? The graphs show similar bass quantity along with the characteristic multi driver pulse response vs that of the GR10 which may relate to prat. W4 is well known in the community so a good modern reference point. Look, if you don't want a response, don't ask, especially on a message board, LOL. More info to cross reference is never a bad thing unless you're, um, you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodvibes 

W4 is well known in the community so a good modern reference point. 

The W4 (and Westones in general) are not known for PRAT.  And the way you sorta dropped it into the discussion (w/o any type of proper intro) was  ... uh ... weird. But I guess that's ... um ... you ;) "LOL"

Spyro would beg to differ.

Westone has all of that, especially the slam.  Westone is well aware of the importance (to most people) about bass weight and slam.  Even their not so heavy bass offerings (W2, W4) still have a nice "weight" to the bass.  Add in the fact that Westone earphones simply do not distort at any volume and they simply know how to design IEM's.  Pace, rhythm, acceleration, timing, etc.?  They not only have it in spades in all their IEM's but you get it in different flavors.

GR10 is fantastic with acoustic and vocal.  Among best I have ever heard but I think it struggles with heavier more complex music and it is source-picky. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro 

GR10 is fantastic with acoustic and vocal.  Among best I have ever heard but I think it struggles with heavier more complex music and it is source-picky. 

Hmmm .... this description, if accurately perceived and described on your part, is how I'd describe my ES SM3v2 ... they are not good for slam or PRAT and fall apart on complex ("fast") music. 

Chamber, jazz, slow pop ... if you like these styles, then ES SM3v2 is for you. So maybe Grado, too.

Back to PRAT and slam ... IME (see Profile for my inventory), no BA can deliver these goods as competently as dynamics ... in fact, even cheap dynamics (again IME) outperform the best univ. BAs. No experience with custom, high-end, gazillion-driver BAs, tho'.

Gr10 is a tweener of dynamic and BA and it's tuned to not have as much extra bass as a w3 or ie80. Sort of 1/2 way between that and an etymotic. I listen to everything from full orchestra to Yes, Nelly, Radiohead and Harry James. It's never fallen down for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphaman 

Back to PRAT and slam ... IME (see Profile for my inventory), no BA can deliver these goods as competently as dynamics ... in fact, even cheap dynamics (again IME) outperform the best univ. BAs.

I flat out disagree.  I see you had the IE8?  I found it to be a sloppy mess.  No articulation, badly veiled, slow, boomy bass, etc...  You should try a W3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphaman 

Hmmm .... this description, if accurately perceived and described on your part, is how I'd describe my ES SM3v2 ... they are not good for slam or PRAT and fall apart on complex ("fast") music. 

Chamber, jazz, slow pop ... if you like these styles, then ES SM3v2 is for you. So maybe Grado, too.

Back to PRAT and slam ... IME (see Profile for my inventory), no BA can deliver these goods as competently as dynamics ... in fact, even cheap dynamics (again IME) outperform the best univ. BAs. No experience with custom, high-end, gazillion-driver BAs, tho'.

GR10 and SM3 are quite different actually. 

The SM3 handles complex and fast music great imo.  I listen to a lot of EDM and some of the most complex music you can find is good progressive trance imo, there's so much going on in a song that a lot of IEM make it sound muudy and jumbled together but with the SM3 you can hear every little detail down to the most obscure sample.  Also with d&b which is very fast they sound just as good.  The SM3 has some of the best imaging and separation you can get from an IEM and they've handled everything I've thrown at them.  Oh and no they don't sound like the GR10 at all either, both have a more mid forward sound but that's about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techno Kid 

The SM3 handles complex and fast music great imo.  I listen to a lot of EDM and some of the most complex music you can find is good progressive trance imo, there's so much going on in a song that a lot of IEM make it sound muudy and jumbled together but with the SM3 you can hear every little detail down to the most obscure sample.  Also with d&b which is very fast they sound just as good.  The SM3 has some of the best imaging and separation you can get from an IEM and they've handled everything I've thrown at them.  Oh and no they don't sound like the GR10 at all either, both have a more mid forward sound but that's about it.

Not for everyone though. The new SM64 has an improved crossover network with impedance matching circuit cause that was an issue with the SM3. I usually test with a half dozen sources and the SM3 did as some reported sound thick and congested on some and more extended and clear and wonderfully separated throughout the spectrum on some others. It has a chance to go both ways so I say you are right but alphaman and others are also :)

What were the sources used where they sound more congested?  I've tried them on a few of mine and will some sound better than others, one source was to warm and paired with a warm IEM just makes them to warm and they have a thicker sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techno Kid 

What were the sources used where they sound more congested?  

Mahler (eg. Symph. 5). During passages when the full orch. lets loose -- in the complex+bombastic Mahler style-- the SM3s sound as if energy gets sucked out, and a thick undifferentiated mess left behind . I've posted on this, over 1.5 yr back, in the SM3 dedicated thread.

On the IE-8 .... its bass can be tamed/controlled by: keeping the tuner at MIN., using GOOD tips (e.g., Comply foam; not supplied Senn stock), and (important) allowing at least 200hrs burn-in. The best attribute of the IE-8 is that if one is listening to music thru them, one can become totally involved (=lost in) the art ... all IMO/IME, of course. I can't say this about almost any other set of cans, IEM or otherwise (again see my Profile inventory). Hopefully, the new IE-800s will be even better.

About the W4 (and Westones in general) ... I have sampled them at audio shows and meets ... and REMAIN largely unimpressed ... they sound too much like Shures (except the short-lived (but best Shure IEM) dynamic E2C), a way-over-rated manuf. of just about everything IMO. IAC, about the Wx and Shure IEMs ... not surprised about the similarity ... Westone developed much of the foundational design of BA Shure ... just look at that shape as well as the micodrivers and xovers inside. 

http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/a4/1000x500px-LL-a4b617f4_Westone4400x300.jpg

http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/dd/1000x500px-LL-dd5b5a8f_ShureSE530400x300.jpg

About the W4 I've had a chance to use a friends for a few days and while I thought they were good I wasn't as impressed as I'd hoped to be.  I feel the SM3 as a more dynamic sound and the soundstage while maybe not quite as wide is much more enveloping and surrounds you more.

I'm going to listen to some of the classical music I have later to see just how the SM3 can handle it because from the way they perform I'm think they'll sound quite good but I hust have to wait and see.

Sorry guys but W4 and SM3 are worlds apart in my opinion. There is not a single area SM3 is even close to comparable. SM3 is very similar to UM3X though with slightly less bass. W4 is an improved UM3X. Biggest problem with SM3 is transparency and clarity in the midrange which makes female and male voices sound very smooth, dreamy or creamy yet unnatural and veiled. Treble too is lacking compared to W4, I actually thought SM3 was quite dark. Regarding soundstage, W4 has more depth, height and width compared to SM3 and it feels never unnatural. I think you guys should give W4 one more try.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by aras 

Sorry guys but W4 and SM3 are worlds apart in my opinion. There is not a single area SM3 is even close to comparable. SM3 is very similar to UM3X though with slightly less bass. W4 is an improved UM3X. Biggest problem with SM3 is transparency and clarity in the midrange which makes female and male voices sound very smooth, dreamy or creamy yet unnatural and veiled. Treble too is lacking compared to W4, I actually thought SM3 was quite dark. Regarding soundstage, W4 has more depth, height and width compared to SM3 and it feels never unnatural. I think you guys should give W4 one more try.  

Everyone has different sound signatures they like and the W4 is a good IEM I just find the SM3 to be more to my liking.  The SM3 is every bit as detailed as the W4 and the imaging and separation is top notch also I can see how people might think the sound dark but I don't hear them that way also the pmp you use makes a big difference as well.  The W4 is wider than the SM3 but it does not have better depth or height, if anything they're equal in that aspect plus the 3D presentation is much better than the W4's.  Like I said though everyone hears things different and have different signatures they like but I feel they're are a few areas that the SM3 is flat out better than the W4.