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Guitar Sound - AKG K701 - Page 2

post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flisker View Post

About the song, I liked : Linkin Park - Meteora - Somewhere I Belong, but when I listen to this now, it starts fine till 23rd second when guitars,basses etc. comes in. This part is just terrible to listen to. It's all kind of "mixed together" just don't like it at all now :( . Maybe it should be like this, I don't know, didn't hear them live.

 

I didn't know this is one of the tracks you were using - I'd hazard a guess the source files are the problem, not necessarily your hardware. Linkin Park's recordings are too far from being reference-grade, and its not just because it isn't acoustic music.

 

For electric guitar music you can try Dream Theater, as well as Nightwish's Wishmaster, Century Child, and Once, for starters (avoid the non-remastered Angels Fall First), some of the songs have two guitars in the recording. For harder music with two guitars audible in most songs, try Epica, particularly The Phantom Agony (the whole album), Metallica (haven't listened much to their work after Reload so I wouldn't know about those) and Megadeath.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flisker View Post

If I try to make it short, I have don't know much about amplifiers and have no idea whats the difference between "normal" and tube one.

 

Look up the blurb on Schiit's amps, particularly the Valhalla - that's a great illustration of what the stereotypical tube sound is like. For amps that's mostly for OTL; some other circuit designs even with tubes can sound very different.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flisker View Post

I Also don't understand this sentence well : "any coloration or detail before it will really be audible on these".

 

 

It means that any component of your system prior to the K701 - such as sources which tend to have a sound signature, and even certain amp circuits most pronounced if "cheap" (ie, compromises made for cost) or outright badly designed - will sound different, affect each other differently, and ultimately the K701 will reveal all of that more than other headphones within the same price range. A tube therefore will always add coloration (see above) and the K701 will let you hear that even if it's on the source (try adding just a tube buffer instead of a completely different source, for example). Also tendency is for solid state to have more current, which is what the K701 needs to bring out its dynamic range, so preferably have the tubes in the source or the preamp section of the headphone amp (or both), not in the driver circuit of the amp. Of course there are tube amps that perform well however they might turn out to be a bit expensive - even the LD MkII had dynamics but the notes were a bit too rounded and soft to me.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor View Post

I wouldn't recommend tube or non-oversampling DACs. They usually only add distortion, which is the last thing you want since you're looking for cleaner sound.

 

From my listening the NOS DACs I've tried are pretty clean compared to some other affordable oversampling units. Even the basic USB DACs I've tried tend to be a bit smoother (some HLLY dac-amp I had before, and the one in my Cantate.2) against even the SACD-compatible affordable DVDPs (which actually use OS DACs, not true DSD 1-bits) and some entry level CDPs. Tubes by measurement always add distortion but if its mostly harmonic I don't see any harm to it.


Edited by ProtegeManiac - 11/20/12 at 5:14pm
post #17 of 23

The graphs that headroom display have compensation.

post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac View Post
From my listening the NOS DACs I've tried are pretty clean compared to some other affordable oversampling units. Even the basic USB DACs I've tried tend to be a bit smoother (some HLLY dac-amp I had before, and the one in my Cantate.2) against even the SACD-compatible affordable DVDPs (which actually use OS DACs, not true DSD 1-bits) and some entry level CDPs. Tubes by measurement always add distortion but if its mostly harmonic I don't see any harm to it.

I have to disagree. By definition NOS are anything but clean with critically sampled audio. Even onboard audio sounds better than non-oversampling: flatter frequency and phase response, less distortion, higher ENOB possible, no need for more complex analog filters or you get crazy aliasing ... in other words non-oversampling DACs don't care about the sampling theorem. That's a problem if you want high fidelity.

 

As for distortion being mostly harmonic. Sure, it's less audible than non-harmonic stuff, but why not get an amp without audible amounts of distortion in the first place. wink_face.gif


Edited by xnor - 11/21/12 at 3:32am
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

As for distortion being mostly harmonic. Sure, it's less audible than non-harmonic stuff, but why not get an amp without audible amounts of distortion in the first place. wink_face.gif

 

I did for my system, but I was thinking the OP probably wouldn't be a fan of what I'm listening with, if what he was looking for was the detail of that "crunch," lead+rhythm separation, and "warmth" of an electric guitar. So far what my set-up is best at is the separation, but even my musician friends think the other attributes are a bit behind Grados.

post #20 of 23

I suggest you try adding a bit of crossfeed ..

 

We rarely talk about it here, but headphones do not present a correct soundstage

unless it's a binaural recording ..  Guitars are often doubled and panned left and right .

If you listen on speakers the two channels will 'blend' somewhat, this is not the case with headphones

where your left ear only hears the left channel and your right ear  only the right .

post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowkenshin View Post

The graphs that headroom display have compensation.

 

InnerFidelity, Headphone.com, and GoldenEars all measure differently and use different sort of compensation. Headphone.com might use compensation to a certain extent, but not to achieve the so-called "perceived" curve that GE shows. GE also has their "ideal" curve where they believe the headphone should measure for both the perceived and raw graphs. They don't show the raw graphs on some the profiles for some reason. I should go back to read their measurement procedures in detail because I can't quite recall the specifics. Even in terms of something as objective as measurements, people seem to have drastically different methods and philosophies.

 

Either that's the reason we're seeing different plots, or it's just massive QC variations on that model. Which isn't something I would put past AKG now that I think about it.

post #22 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
For electric guitar music you can try Dream Theater, as well as Nightwish's Wishmaster, Century Child, and Once, for starters (avoid the non-remastered Angels Fall First), some of the songs have two guitars in the recording. For harder music with two guitars audible in most songs, try Epica, particularly The Phantom Agony (the whole album), Metallica (haven't listened much to their work after Reload so I wouldn't know about those) and Megadeath.

So today I tried Epica - The Phantom Agony, Metallica - Tried many albums and Nightwish - Wishmaster and all of these are absolutely great. Can't complain about anything, everything sounds clear and it's joy to listen to. Problem with Linkin Park is probably as you say that it's not HQ music.

 

Also I got chance to listen to Antonio Vivaldi - The Four Seasons and Violin Concertos , which is phenomenal, it's best music I've heard so far on these AKG's.

 

ps: Thanks for answering my questions and music suggestions smile_phones.gif Really appreciate it. 

post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flisker View Post

So today I tried Epica - The Phantom Agony, Metallica - Tried many albums and Nightwish - Wishmaster and all of these are absolutely great. Can't complain about anything, everything sounds clear and it's joy to listen to. Problem with Linkin Park is probably as you say that it's not HQ music.

 

Also I got chance to listen to Antonio Vivaldi - The Four Seasons and Violin Concertos , which is phenomenal, it's best music I've heard so far on these AKG's.

 

ps: Thanks for answering my questions and music suggestions smile_phones.gif Really appreciate it. 

 

Listen to Nightwish's "Fantasmic" and "Beauty of the Beast" on your AKGs. I was in a HiFi show recently and usually the hardest music the older people play there is the Sultans of Swing album; now imagine Fantasmic blaring out or Focal Stalla Utopias (too flat, but not necessarily bad), Sonus Faber Guarneris (WOWOWOW treble but almost zero lower freq impact) and Dynaudio Contour S5.4 (now that's more like it!).

 

Almost sold my kidneys right there. Even the Dynaudio guy had to admit Epica's "Facade of Reality" sounded like an apocalyptic movie soundtrack (the tragic part is it's a soundtrack to an apocalyptic reality).


Edited by ProtegeManiac - 11/22/12 at 5:59pm
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