My attempt at removing the Sennheiser veil through equalization - Page 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by silversurfer616 

Along the way from some Sennheiser HD515 just out of a CDplayer I came to the conclusion that EQ is compromising the sound of any given headphone.I have now the HE500 and LCD2Rev2 and instead of EQ I tweak it to my liking by experimenting with amps,cables and most importantly DACs and giving my brain enough time to get used to a sound signature.Works for me!

Sure works for me too. Anyone who doubts the EQ power of the brain, please have a look, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0&feature=youtu.be

Whenever someone tells me that their amp or dac sounds SO much better after it burned in I say; "that's great, enjoy it" when I really mean; "It's your brain that burned in, silly". In the end what it sounds like to you is what counts. If EQ sounds good to you, then I would not argue with that.

Personally I can't stand the thought of EQ but that is just MY silly bias.

^As has been mentioned, the music you listen to has been passed through rounds of EQ. I would here call aversion to EQ a cognitive bias indeed.

well i understand the feeling of averting the eq, its a similar feeling when i avert the stereo widening feature on many devices. but if your setup sounds good to you than its good then.

for the tuning part, yes i use almost only ear, practice and multiple attemps has given me pretty good expereince at tuning, not sure if its neutral or not though, since i listen to mostly electro and EDM music where i have no reference to real life, so i just tune to have the best sound experience

Saying that use of EQ is cheating is utter nonsense. Cheating in what sense? not splashing money on new amps maybe?

ok then. I have a software DSP that can be bought for £2000 and works as a VST plugin. Who's interested?

Actually, it is possible to EQ phase. If you equalize a minimum phase response with a minimum phase EQ to a perfect flat frequency response, then the phase response will be flat, too. Headphones, at least those with a simple open design, often have a close to minimum phase response. This has been demonstrated by xnor in a Sound Science thread, where convolving a headphone impulse response with its minimum phase inverse resulted in a fairly clean impulse response and CSD. In practice, it is not really possible to fix complex reverberation (which is equivalent to "noise" with narrow transitions in the frequency response) with manual EQ, but in the bass range (where phase errors are the most audible), a minimum phase EQ may improve the sound, and in the midrange and treble, the group delay from the EQ is at least short enough that it does not make the sound audibly worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity 

If you not Amping the Sennheisers like you should, there will be a veil whatever you do EQ or not. 

Well, there is some point to this, as Sennheiser headphones tend to be more sensitive to the output impedance of the amplifier driving them than most others, but it does not take an expensive amplifier to avoid such problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stv014 

 

Well, there is some point to this, as Sennheiser headphones tend to be more sensitive to the output impedance of the amplifier driving them than most others, but it does not take an expensive amplifier to avoid such problems.

Okey. Well if you mean that the "veil" is still there while proper amping is done Im not with you.

Cause for me the veil isn´t about SQ issues. Is about the sennheisers sounding congested, and they do without proper amping. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity 

Okey. Well if you mean that the "veil" is still there while proper amping is done Im not with you.

Cause for me the veil isn´t about SQ issues. Is about the sennheisers sounding congested, and they do without proper amping. 

how much of an amp would it take to remove this congestion from the HD558/HD598?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stv014 

 

Well, there is some point to this, as Sennheiser headphones tend to be more sensitive to the output impedance of the amplifier driving them than most others, but it does not take an expensive amplifier to avoid such problems.

like that has stopped all the people who swear tube amps have "synergy" with the HD600..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z3disD3ad 

Saying that use of EQ is cheating is utter nonsense. Cheating in what sense? not splashing money on new amps maybe?

 

ok then. I have a software DSP that can be bought for £2000 and works as a VST plugin. Who's interested?

Wow, awesome! Now, if I knew what a VST plug in was, I wood be buying a dozen of those doo dads...

Quote:

Originally Posted by stv014 

 

Actually, it is possible to EQ phase. If you equalize a minimum phase response with a minimum phase EQ to a perfect flat frequency response, 

Just so that I'm on the same planet, what software do you use to equalize phase response?  Is it part of your music player?  And I'm most curious to know if you've had the opportunity to try this with the Senns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by streetdragon 

how much of an amp would it take to remove this congestion from the HD558/HD598?

Sorry but I cant tell you that. Im not an amp expert. Only thing I can say is when i drive my HD 600 trough MF - M1 HPA they dont sound veiled... But with my phone, or laptop, they do sound congested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity 

Okey. Well if you mean that the "veil" is still there while proper amping is done Im not with you.

At least in the case of the HD650, the veil is proven by frequency response measurements. Of course, some people like the dark and laid back sound (and may be offended by the "veil" claims), but not others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity 

Sorry but I cant tell you that. Im not an amp expert. Only thing I can say is when i drive my HD 600 trough MF - M1 HPA they dont sound veiled... But with my phone, or laptop, they do sound congested.

There are many reasons why the phone and laptop sound worse, but the simplest one is that they may not have enough power to drive the HD600 at your preferred volume, or you did not compare them to the amplifier at matched levels.