New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

W4 versus UE900 - Page 3

post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc-holliday View Post


I thought it would have been funny if you would have just answered with:
Anyway, take care buddy. All good I thought it was a good conversation.

 

:p

post #32 of 59
Thats more like it biggrin.gif
post #33 of 59
Thread Starter 

Doc...I fully understand what you are saying and your "emphasis" description is certainly subjective.  But also telling someone about a +6db is vague as well.  Most aren't technical enough to understand the incremental difference in sound of 6db, probably me included.


Edited by Spyro - 11/17/12 at 2:49pm
post #34 of 59
Thread Starter 

Any bass amount LESS than W4 would be simply unacceptable to me so that makes is easy to cross UE900 off my list.

post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Any bass amount LESS than W4 would be simply unacceptable to me so that makes is easy to cross UE900 off my list.

YEp....  thats why i never bought them... ( UE900)   

post #36 of 59

W4 has a bit too much bass IMO, sounds a bit veiled because of it. I need to try it with more resistance though, that tames it's bass a bit. 

post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

W4 has a bit too much bass IMO, sounds a bit veiled because of it. I need to try it with more resistance though, that tames it's bass a bit. 

Very true. Some people happen to like the veil though, especially to gloss over the crud in some recordings. A guilty pleasure, really. Completely agree about the resistance taming the bass.

post #38 of 59
Thread Starter 

A bigger bass has nothing to do with a veil.  A veil is about the tuning.  W3 bass is twice as strong as W4 but has zero veil. 


Edited by Spyro - 11/18/12 at 5:54pm
post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

It is a false saying a bigger bass creates a veil.  A veil is about the tuning.  W3 bass is twice as strong as W4 but has zero veil. 

I guess not a veil as in the phones having an inherent veil (muddied, unclear sound), but the slight mid/upper-bass emphasis bleeding into the mids, creating a "veil" effect. Going from a very clear IEM like the K3003/PFE232/ER4, then back, the W4s are a bit bloomier (again, sometimes the effect is pleasing, it definitely introduces a sense of naturalness for some). Still a very balanced phone, with good detail, a smooth FR, fantastic presentation, and tight bass (which is much more important than quantity IMO). I don't remember the W3 having a upper-bass bleed, as most of the bass, which is much greater in quantity than in the W4, was mid-bass from what I heard. Adding to the fact that the mids were very dry, clear, transparent, not at all warm, which might explain the lack of a "veil" (should probably stop using that term). I kind of wished that the W3 did have a veil at times, as they were just brutal for metal and noise rock. 

post #40 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

A bigger bass has nothing to do with a veil.  A veil is about the tuning.  W3 bass is twice as strong as W4 but has zero veil. 

 

If I'm not mistaken, veil depends on the location where the bass is boosted.  If I'm not mistaken, a boost slightly ahead of the mid-bass will do this (150 - 200 Hz region).

post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

If I'm not mistaken, veil depends on the location where the bass is boosted.  If I'm not mistaken, a boost slightly ahead of the mid-bass will do this (150 - 200 Hz region).

 

Yes, that's the idea. However, it's important for people to remember that bass drivers are tuned with a slope, usually at most 6 dB/octave (you'll rarely ever see anything beyond a 1st order low pass). Veil mostly happens when the slope isn't tuned as tightly and there's residual additive response in the "mud region", usually around 250-400. If the earphone is additionally boosted in the lower mids, the problem will compound to sound even less clear, especially if there's an accompanying drop in the upper mids. At that point, no amount of treble boost to clarity will help relieve the veil. That's why I only thought the W4 sounded good with those bullet tips; they seemed to tame the mud region down to reasonable levels.

post #42 of 59
Thread Starter 

Let's not forget, too, that I have to think this is not a mistake or bad tuning on Westone's part.  Considering the level of expertise they have and thousands of hours of engineering that went into it we have no reason to doubt that it is all intentional.  Like with me as a loud listener, the slight veil is welcome and keeps the fatigue factor away enabling me to listen all day, yet all that treble detail still seems to come through anyway.

post #43 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

Yes, that's the idea. However, it's important for people to remember that bass drivers are tuned with a slope, usually at most 6 dB/octave (you'll rarely ever see anything beyond a 1st order low pass). Veil mostly happens when the slope isn't tuned as tightly and there's residual additive response in the "mud region", usually around 250-400. If the earphone is additionally boosted in the lower mids, the problem will compound to sound even less clear, especially if there's an accompanying drop in the upper mids. At that point, no amount of treble boost to clarity will help relieve the veil. That's why I only thought the W4 sounded good with those bullet tips; they seemed to tame the mud region down to reasonable levels.

Wow that's a detailed explanation mate !

post #44 of 59
Thread Starter 

As an overall presentation which one would you say is brighter or airier sounding.  Or pretty much same?

 

Because I would generally describe W4 as dark with a limited amount of air.  (not saying as a negative....just saying.)

post #45 of 59
UE 900 has more air to my ears.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav: