Bored... Wondering about a source?
Mar 14, 2004 at 11:39 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 18

BANGPOD

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
1,230
Likes
10
Head-Fi'ers --

I am bored as all hell. Period. I have NOTHING to do.
I was contemplating a long away future source...

I am looking for...

- Detail (my number one priority)
- Resolution (overall, my third priority)
- Clarity (second, but JUST as important as detail)

= DRC

- High end extension, without being harsh
- If there is anything harsh, I will absolutely cry
- I NEED a low end... Extension is more important than impact.
- But, impact is always a plus... Bass quality and extension first.

I want to find a CD player that is very smooth, yet...
Retains enough DRC for say, ER-4S/Omega II's (MAYBE)
But is musical enough too, for a pair of R10's (MAYBE, I said)
I would like a source that will stay neutral. I WANT NEUTRALITY.

I am looking at Cardas Neutral References...
I have an HR-2 with AD-8065's (neutral and transparent)

And I am using the ER-4S right now, also very neutral...
See a PATTERN, yet?
biggrin.gif
I knew you would! Good boy...

Anyways, the reason for neutrality is obvious with the Omega II's...
But if I went the R10 route, I would want as neutral as I can get...
So I can hear them in their purest form... I want to hear what THEY can do.

I have between $2000 and $3000 to provide for this CD player!
A transport + DAC is worthy to consider, but one box is ideal...
I would not like to go over $3000, because I do not feel I have to.

All opinions are welcome, I am very bored... I want to hear something!
But again, this is extremely hypothetical... Okay, just kidding... REALITY!

I am NOT against buying USED! New is always nice, though!
biggrin.gif


Help me out, might Head-Fi'ers of Head-Fidom!

Scott
 
Mar 14, 2004 at 11:47 PM Post #2 of 18
Scott:

It seems that you are not the only bored soul in the world!
tongue.gif


You and I have very similar philosophies guiding our purchasing decisions. We have the same terrific headphone amplifier. I can tell you right now from experience that the Cardas Neutral Reference is a terrific IC. It is 90% neutral and 10% musical if you want to categorize it as such. It would be a perfect match with the Emmeline HR-2 + ___________ op-amp. Highly recommended.

As for the source, do this: get the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi for < $1000 USD and get this specific ModWright package deal:

Standalone MULTI-CHANNEL Mod WITH AD8065/8066 op-amps
Power Supply Upgrade Mod
LC Audio Superclock X03 with Clock Supply
Level II Transport Mod

$1100 USD

You'll have a terrific all in one box solution to your problems. The only problem is that it is not budget price if you decide to do both routes but you will be saving $900 USD from your ceiling of $3000 USD. You will be amazed.

With the extra $900 USD, save MOST of it for future upgrades or emergency bills and spend a good $100 USD on music especially DVD-Audio and SACD plus a couple of DVD-Video music videos too.
 
Mar 14, 2004 at 11:49 PM Post #3 of 18
BTW, the $2200 USD you'll be spending for this ModWright Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi should be comparable to much more expensive stock universal source components according to what customers have said who have the luxury of owning both and doing their own informal head-to-head comparisons.
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 12:10 AM Post #5 of 18
That depends. Stock DVD-Video capable players just don't play Red Book CDs that well compared to dedicated Red Book CD players costing > $3000 USD. This is the brutal honest truth. However, enter the option of getting stock universal players modded. Then, the equation changes and they become a very cost effective way of baking your cake and eating it too...for a price.
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 12:21 AM Post #6 of 18
Quote:

Originally posted by gort
I read (by searching on google) that universal players doesn't sound good as single format players. Is this true?


No, I don't think so. I have two universal players, the 59AVi and the DV-50. The former uses i.Link to communicate with an i.Link capable receiver -- it sounds wonderful. The latter has the best sound of any player I've ever spent significant time with.

I do believe this may be true of some lesser universal players, though.
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 1:01 AM Post #7 of 18
Quote:

Originally posted by Welly Wu
Scott:

It seems that you are not the only bored soul in the world!
tongue.gif


You and I have very similar philosophies guiding our purchasing decisions. We have the same terrific headphone amplifier. I can tell you right now from experience that the Cardas Neutral Reference is a terrific IC. It is 90% neutral and 10% musical if you want to categorize it as such. It would be a perfect match with the Emmeline HR-2 + ___________ op-amp. Highly recommended.


Welly Wu --

We have the EXACT SAME philosophies guiding our purchases...
The Emmeline HR-2 is the best purchase I have made to date.

And, I disliked the ER-4S with AD-797 op-amp's... And you say...
Put in some AD-8065's! And I say... Wow, I've never heard better!
That was my second best purchase to date... Two SMALL chips!

On these forums, your ears are the ones I have the most confidence in...
Because your preferences are almost perfectly in line with mine... Uncanny!
Everything you have recommended to me has worked well, to a T!
biggrin.gif


Can you go into a little more detail (no pun intended) with the CNR's?
ModWrighted Pioneer 59-AVi, can you also tell me a little more about this?

Please relate the above two questions to the HR-2/ER-4S with AD-8065's...

Gort --

Easy on the thread hijacking...
biggrin.gif


Scott
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 1:39 AM Post #8 of 18
Scott:

The Cardas Neutral Reference interconnect cables are a slight departure from the Cardas Audio Cable System. Typically, Cardas is known for its' tendency to build cables (power cords, interconnects, various accessories) that sound slightly warm and musical. Their top of the line power cord and interconnect cables are known as the Golden Reference family. They are costly...even to me. However, the CNR are a departure from the Cardas house sound; it is Mr. George Cardas' personal interpretation of neutrality. By neutrality, it sounds evenly balanced: bass, middle range, and treble regions sound well proportioned. Furthermore, the speed and dynamics of the CNR ICs excel in terms of attack and decay, microdynamics including precision detail, and convey a natural sound stage. They are thin too: about 0.35 inches in diameter and they look gray with the tradmark Cardas logo in both red and light blue lettering. As I have said before, they are perfectly neutral with just a hint of Cardas' famed house sound. You can get a 0.5 meter pair for $200 USD brand new from http://www.audiogon.com . I paid far less but that was a once in a lifetime opportunity deal.

The Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi is an excellent price : performance performer. It plays DVD-Video with such convincing film like appearance that it really is just like watching a film in a theatre! The video section is highly customizable: you can adjust for intensity of whites, blacks, hue, colors, detail, sharpness, etc. It's mind blowing in terms of configurable options just like a computer. The Audio section is even more configurable! My options include the ability to up convert Red Book CD 16bit resolution to 24bit and to enable upsampling as well but I am not certain exactly what is the exact sampling rate with this said option enabled. What I can tell you is this: the DV-59AVi does for Red Book CD what HDCD sounded like on my previous NAD C 541i HDCD player but better. What I mean is that transient speed is faster and nimble as hell. There is full bodied texture and richness to each note. Bass is a bit lean but extends down pretty low without falling into the typical trap of being overpowering. Middle range is superb: detailed, rich, and natural. Treble region is a bit harsh and edgy but well extended. And this is just Red Book CD.

Pop in a DVD-Audio or SACD disc and this a beast of an animal. With DVD-Audio in two channel mode, it surely must be three dimensional and detailed to the last hertz of every note played. Imaging and soundstage become not left to right in a flat plane but front, back, left, and right with uncanny three dimensional feel, texture, and precise placement of instruments and musicians. Instrumental separation is so well defined in time and space that when the recording engineer decides to highlight the voice of Norah Jones during a passage in a song she just comes and goes with effortlessness as is expected of fine women. SACD sounds even better. Take away the 3D trickery and add more bloom and lushness in the middle range along with some crazy dynamic swing but at the expense of some detail and precise imaging and you have SACD.

Other tidbits are well worth speaking of: vibration control is superb. This is the only well designed source component thus far that does not benefit significantly with some sort of aftermarket vibration dampening device or mechanism. I can literally kick my cheap white IKEA student desk upon which my DV-59AVi is placed and the music does not skip one beat. The feet, while cheap looking, do their intended function well and without fanfare. Upon closer inspect, they are removeable and you can spend money to get replacement feet. The drive platter, a critical component in any source component, is a cheap affair not unlike the ones found in CD / DVD burner drives. That must be replaced for better vibration dampening and jitter control.

The ModWright package deal that I am saving up for includes these select modifications:

1. Standalone MULTI-CHANNEL Mod with AD-8065/8066 op-amps:
-Upgrade rectifiers to ultrafast soft-recovery diodes
- Add a grounded IEC socket to allow the use of upgrade power cords
- Modify and improve the power supply filtering with the use of high-quality electrolytic caps.
- Upgrade analog coupling caps to Black Gates
- Upgrade op-amps to high quality ultra-fast op-amps
- Improve individual power supplies to DAC and analog circuits for improved sonics
- Includes all of the above mods, while also treating the op-amps and coupling caps for the multi-channel circuits as well as the 2 Channel audio circuit.

2. Level II Transport Mod:
Level I Transport Mods:
- Upgrade rectifiers to ultrafast soft-recovery diodes
- Add an IEC socket to allow the use of upgrade power cords
- Modify and improve the power supply filtering.
- Upgrade stock digital out jack to a high-quality Cardas rhodium plated RCA
- Modify digital out circuit.
Level II Transport Mods (Including the above mods and the following):
- Key digital decoupling caps are upgraded to Black Gate FK and Nx-HiQ caps
- Upgrade main AC filter cap from a Panasonic capacitor to Black Gate's best WK "Power Tank" cap.

3. LC Audio Superclock X03 with Clock Supply:
- LClock XO 3 is a module for building into CD / SACD or DVD players to improve sound performance dramatically, by giving the internal D/A converter a clean and jitter and noise free clock for precise conversion. Soundwise this will give these effects:

- Wide soundstage, free from the speakers.
- Precise definition of instruments and performers in the soundstage.
- Better resolution with more distinction in the bass region

Technical Specifications of the LC Audio Superclock X03:

Black Gate NX HI-Q for noise free voltage filtering.
Dual Clock Output with UHF plugs (SMB type).
Instant Clock Signal, Main capacitor bank is delayed for trouble free integration in any CD / SACD or DVD player.
3V / 5V output level setting on board.
New Ultra Low Noise Voltage Reference from Analog Devices.
RG174 COAX cable with SMB plug included in each kit.
New Ultra Fast (5,2nS) Voltage Comparator (with factor 10 better signal/noise performance compared with XO2).
Disable function for DVD players with Standby mode.
4 separate Voltage regulators, compared to 2 in XO 2.
4 layer circuit board with two noise screening planes inside.
1 ppm accuracy (+/- 16 Hz for a 16,9344 MHz clock).
Jitter factor 10 lower than other leading ref. Clock.
Effective Voltage Polarising security.
Voltage monitor with Blue 'OK' LED.
Advanced Low Noise Design (91 active parts - compared with 43 in XO 2).

4. Power Supply Mod:
replace / change the stock power supply unit to work in conjunction with all the other mods including:

- a torodial power supply with custom silver internal wiring throughout the PCB of the DV-59AVi.

- Black Gates FK / Nx-HiQ caps & WK "Power Tank" Cap

These select modifications will literally change the audio signature of the stock DV-59AVi. It will hopefully impart a much more realistic and natural reproduction to music by revealing its' truer timbre, shades, and hues. It will be interesting to hear the result of these heavy and extensive modifications on a pure two channel dedicated headphone system because I am interested too in three dimensional imaging and a fuller soundstage emanating from my source component to be filtered throughout the rest of the audio chain. Nevertheless, I firmly believe these mods will deliver an exponential net gain at a relatively affordable price and my savings account is just shy of $106 USD from reaching this audio goal in the very near future. The principle of source first can not be underestimated in my experience. It is the most important single piece of audio or video equipment that defines one's audio / video system. The beauty of universal source components include versatility, flexibility, and cutting edge technologies all in one box. I'm intent on making that box the best I can afford to do so.
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 2:14 AM Post #9 of 18
Welly Wu --

That is great to hear about the Pioneer DV-59AVi! Unmodded?
In this price range, what are good Redbook-only alternatives?
What about any alternatives that are also HDCD-capable?
biggrin.gif

You comment regarding the bass being "lean" worries me...

Modded units of the above criteria would be great, as well.
Again, refer to my previous posts for what I am looking for.

Again, I would like to keep my options open... Redbook? HDCD?

I would just like to keep my options open for future upgrades...
I have my mind set on buying a pair of CNR's for my Emmeline!
What power cords are worth looking at with the money I have?

PS Audio looks very nice, but so does Virtual Dynamics...
Does Cardas put out any power cords I should know about?

Thanks for all of your help thus far...
As per Welly Wu's advice, I couldn't be happier with the HR-2.

So far, I have: CNR's --> HR-2 (AD-8065's) --> ER-4S
The above part of my chain won't be changed for a while...

Forgot to add... I am looking for the most NEUTRAL source I can find...
In other words, I am trying to build a transparent reference system.
NEUTRALITY and DRC are the highest on my list of priorities.

All opinions and suggestions are welcome...
smily_headphones1.gif


Scott
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 2:22 AM Post #10 of 18
Scott:

As for power cords, I would recommend the PS Audio xStream Statement power cord because it is their penultimate PC that adds middle range bloom, treble extension, and plenty of bass visceral impact. It is truly the cutting edge in power cord technology but it is expensive. That's on my short list of PCs for much later this year or early 2005. Remember, power cords are the last 10 - 15 percent of the total audio / video budget.

Do not, I repeat, do not buy the Cardas Golden Reference power cord or interconnect cable. You will introduce warmth and musicality into your pristinely neutral system thus far.

As for other options in the source component department, I shall defer to the expertise of other community members. All I know thus far are the Panasonic SL-CT570 PCDP, NAD C 541i HDCD, Denon DVD 2900, and Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi with a little bit of knowledge on the Denon DVD 5900 but not in the form of actual ownership. Red Book CD will eventually die out in the next 10 years. The future of music may not even be disc based!
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 2:30 AM Post #11 of 18
Head-Fi'ers --

That also reminds me... How neutral (or not) are the following house sounds?

Linn (Ikemi, Genki)?
Cary (303/200, 306/200)?
Jolida (Modded JD-100A)?
Meridian (508.24, 588)?
Shanling (Modded CD-T100)?

That's all I can think of right now in the $2000 - $3000 range...
Please recommend me good sources if I have overlooked any.

Welly Wu --

How much is that PS Audio power cord (Statement)?
From your description, I am assuming it isn't neutral?
This is one heck of a prude system I am building...
biggrin.gif


The Virgin Mary will look like Jenna Jameson in my setup!
tongue.gif


Scott
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 2:37 AM Post #12 of 18
Scott:

The PS Audio xStream Statement has an MSRP price of $399 USD but you can get it from http://www.audiogon.com for $240 USD shipped. It is neutral -- from the lower middle range up to the upper treble region. The bass extension is deep but it does add that extra oomph of visceral slam and impact to the bass lean ER-4P/S. That is one of the sonic reasons why I got the xStream Plus PC. That is still one of the sonic reasons why I will get the xStream Statement PC with the Ultimate Ears UE-10 Pro earphones.
basshead.gif
basshead.gif
basshead.gif
basshead.gif
Also, it is the cutting edge in power cord design, engineering, and technology. Few surpass its' technical and sonic merits.
 
Mar 15, 2004 at 3:42 AM Post #15 of 18
Edwood:

You're kicking yourself for not buying the PS Audio xStream Statement PC? What about me!
very_evil_smiley.gif
mad.gif
Now, I've got to lose money on selling the xStream Plus PC used and spend more money on the xStream Statement PC!

There is a lesson to be learned in HI-FI: get the best and don't worry about the rest. Also, don't major in minor things either: don't get a whole bunch of lesser grade stuff but stay focused on a few choice selections.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top