Heir Audio Tzar 90 and Tzar 350 Universal In Ear Monitors - Page 49

Long time stalker on Head-fi I just have a burning question I need answering.

 

Anybody with Studio V 3rd Anniversary, recommend the tzar 350 or 4.Ai. I had the Sennheiser ie80 but the hiss was very distracting.  I mostly listen to classical and jazz if that helps you on your  recommendation. 

 

Thanks.

 

From the DNA website:

 

• Selectable output impedance: 120 ohm (IEC setting) or 28 ohm (Low setting) via toggle switch
Some headphones are designed to be voltage driven (low amplifier output impedance); others are meant to be current driven (high amplifier output impedance). Depending on the headphone, how you drive them can affect their tonal balance. Many high-end headphones are designed and tuned around the IEC 61938 specification for 120 ohm amplifier output impedance, yet virtually no headphone amplifiers offer this standard output. Using the Sonett, you can now hear your headphones as their designers intended.

 

Now the other question.....   why blue?

 

 

 

     I don't know the answer but here is a "punt."

 

     If it is the head phone impedance is the culprit (ie80 16 Ohm) I would think the logical choice would be to move away from that impedance level. The 4.Ai, would still be in that range. The Tzar 90 and Tzar 350 may resolve the hiss.

 

 

I was hoping for it, but sadly the Studio's issue isn't resolved by this, at least the 90. It is a matter of sensitivity I believe. 

 

I know the other than the hiss (which is less than the SM3 with 32ohms impedance) the 90's sound great with the V 3rdANV. How it will do with the 350 or 4.ai though is up for debate.

 

Your answer is as below:

 

 

Are all armature based iems voltage driven? i.e., Will the Tzars always benefit from low impedance output?

The 120ohm standard is hideously outdated - is it still a banable offense to link to NwAvGuy's great explanation of why (and how) output impedance matters?

I've always wondered about that statement from DNA - specifically which of the "many headphones" designed around this spec are we referring to? As far as I know there are very, very few. 

 

Mosshorn - in my experience, HiSound DAPs hiss period. No matter what. It's the player's fault, not the IEM. I've heard talk that the RoCoo BA doesn't hiss but I'm not convinced until I hear it myself because people have said similar in the past for other models but I heard hiss anyway. 

Hiss is about effeciency vs noise and not impedance. I find the BA and Anv 3 Hisounds acceptable with my efficient IEMs but i can definitely hear hear hiss between tracks if I listen for it. If not, I don't really notice but I'm an old analog guy that grew up with tape hiss. LOL

ER4P gets more linear with impedance [thus ER4S], UE700 gets more linear with impedance, W4, R50, etc. With TWFKs harsh peaks are tamed for a more pleasant response. The data is all here. Now, what can you show refuting this? What is being affected negatively?. NWavGuy never got to test these examples in his article, I agree with the ones he did provide though, SF5 does want a lower OI, it just didn't paint the whole picture as there are exceptions. 

Edited by Inks - 1/3/13 at 8:51pm

 

Sorry for butting in.  If I'm mistaken, just tell me.  I haven't been paying 100% attention, but I thought they were talking about output impedance of a DAC or Amp.  Either that, or I'm highly confused :p

Edited by tinyman392 - 1/3/13 at 9:11pm

Yes but output impedance is basically the same things as adding resistance. A 10ohm OI  source is like a 1ohm OI source with a 9ohm adapter. So a UE700 which gets better with resistance will actually sound better with higher OI sources. 

2 wrongs making it right. Problem is that it's an unwanted variable ina source. If the IEM is good, you have no choice but for it to get worse and the tune will vary by device so better to have low source impedance and vary after if you feel the need. Even with frequency correction the lowered damping factor of added resistance can change the character beyond frequency response.

If it gets worse then the variable isn't needed yes. I do like to use a lower OI source and use impedance afterwards to have the versatility if lower impedance is need for an IEM like the TF10. What is that variable? Decay characteristics? I can let Rin know to show that data but it will prove to the benefit of the impedance

 

If you really want to get technical, you'd have to test all other variables (decay, impulse, distortion, phase, insertion depth changes, etc; there may be more too) independantly.  Some of these variables probably won't be affected (phase), others might.  Don't assume anything though.  If there is no change, you must show that.  If there is change, then we get weird...  Either show it'll have very little audible difference, or show how it's positive in some way (much harder to do without subjective interpretation)...  That second statement scares me a bit though for two reasons.  You assume that scientific observation proves something (please look more into this thought)...  And you're trying to imply that you'll formulate an opinion to fit the data rather than the data formulating an opinion.  

 

Your argument begins to fall short as you state that in order to reach this optimal neutrality, you tend to have to add a specific amount of resistance (too much and stuff may be altered too far; negative effects), but also do other things as well (change tips, insertion depth, etc.).  It's no longer an independent change causing the positive (more neutral, according to you) outcome.  

Edited by tinyman392 - 1/3/13 at 10:17pm

No it's because I know of the expected results it's not a biased guess. This can be looked into later by Rin, he's far too busy with other stuff at the moment. I challenge anyone to simply listen to a W4, UE700,etc. With impedance added, the results are simply there. 100 or 33ohms is fine neither takes things too far, better than stock.

?? What's wrong with testing other variables? Who wouldn't want to know which tips have the best acoustics with a specific IEM?
Edited by Inks - 1/3/13 at 10:23pm