HE-6 > Dark Star or equiv....or integrated amp? - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper 

At 8 ohm ratings, approx. 80-100wpc. Lessor wattage amps can be used with better power supplies. It's the power supply capabilities that determines the HE-6 performance. Chase is running a current amp with them and using a 4 wpc First Watt F-1. Best bass I've heard from my 6s. I bet that J2 sounds great.

I (chase) am also loving the bass this thing is putting out

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper 

At 8 ohm ratings, approx. 80-100wpc. Lessor wattage amps can be used with better power supplies. It's the power supply capabilities that determines the HE-6 performance. Chase is running a current amp with them and using a 4 wpc First Watt F-1. Best bass I've heard from my 6s. I bet that J2 sounds great.

The HE-6 is a somewhat "mysterious" headphone. With the LCD-3, the choice of amp is made rather simple by the overwhelmingly positive remarks from many sources when paired with a Liquid Fire. The top of the line can from HiFiMAN is a different beast entirely. Enthusiasts are all over the map on how best to power them and what to power them with. HC, you have heard them paired with more amps than most so you get more street cred.

50 Ohms "absorbs" ~ 1/6th the power that a 8 Ohm load does with the same V swing, the difference is all in the current - so any claims about 8 Ohm rated load loudspeaker amp power supply insufficient current availability for a 50 Ohm load is absurd

if the sensitivity numbers are at all realistic 25-30 W 8 Ohm power rating will get you to 120 SPL without clipping

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Roberts 

I don't doubt for a minute what you are hearing Elysian. What puzzles me is that the J2 is rated at 25W into 8 ohms and many on the main HE-6 thread would state that is simply not enough to properly drive them. I realize the so called minimum requirement is 2W into 50 ohms but many believe this inefficient hp requires more for optimal performance. Thoughts?

I've seen the various wattage calculations, but honestly, I got the First Watt based on recommendation from Justin@Headamp in another thread when I asked about speaker amps driving the HE6.

I agree with the follow-up posters that power supply might have a lot to do with it.  Quality of the amp is the most important factor.  The HE6s threads have a lot of 'must have a 100W+ speaker amp' misinformation that is complete inaccurate.  Majority of people who have tested the HE6 with Nelson Pass designs (Aleph, Threshold, First Watt) have been very satisfied, even for the clone amps.

Those considering the mini-X should just get that Trends TA-10.2SE (2x15wpc 4ohms, 2x10wpc 8ohms).  For amping the HE6, it has the best price-performance I've ever seen for an amp amping a high-end headphone.  I'm curious what it would do with a LCD2 or HE500.

I'm also using a Placette Active preamp to control the volume, which helped tame some of the hardness some find with the HE6.  The most important thing, IMO, is to get a DAC or DAC+preamp signal you're really happy with, and the best designed speaker amp you can get.  HE6 doesn't need huge amounts of power.  Overkill amps work but are not necessary by any means, and honestly probably don't sound as good as a well-designed JFET amp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 

Those considering the mini-X should just get that Trends TA-10.2SE (2x15wpc 4ohms, 2x10wpc 8ohms).  For amping the HE6, it has the best price-performance I've ever seen for an amp amping a high-end headphone.  I'm curious what it would do with a LCD2 or HE500.

What makes you say this?  Have you compared both yourself?  

The specs you posted look less than appealing for the HE-6. Where the mini X is rated at 50wpc @8 ohms.  Who's to say one is higher quality than the other?  I have not heard either so I can't comment.  

There have been good reports on both amps with the HE-6.

what part of 50 Ohms load draws 1/6th current of an 8 Ohm load don't people understand? - or do they not understand power supplies?

load a 8 Ohm continuous power rated amp with a 50 Ohm headphone and the power supply hardly notices the current draw

assume heroically bad, under designed loudspeaker amp supply, performs poorly with 8 Ohms, say only 1/3 of the reservoir C capacity/transformer rating that it should be for conservative 8 Ohm continuous power - it is still 2x "over sized" for 50 Ohm loads

such severe under sizing only happens with fake "PEP" power ratings with cheap multichannel "hone theater in a box" which still deliver the nameplate power into at least 2 of the channels at once

2-ch amps are required to be speced for continuous power into a 8 Ohm loudspeaker load

Thanks for a very knowledgeable and expansive reply Elysian.  It helps to clear up some of the "confusion" regarding Dr. Bian's design.

Yours is one of the higher end rigs I have seen on Head Fi powering the HE-6. I already had the tubed Calypso Signature linestage and tubed BAT amp in house when taking the plunge. Those two pieces of kit certainly meet the "quality" requirement. Can't say that I'm dissatisfied with the "synergy" nor with what I am hearing either.

Perhaps its time to dispense with the search for the "Holy Grail" amp for the HE-6 and just enjoy the music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx 

 

 

load a 8 Ohm continuous power rated amp with a 50 Ohm headphone and the power supply hardly notices the current draw

 

 

JCX, are you implying with this statement that one can plug the HE-6 into the 8 ohms taps of a well designed speaker amp without using 10 ohm resistors connected in parallel to match the load?

I don't know of any SS amp that requires a load - some don't like too much C from ESL, piezo tweeters or exotic Low L cables - and most "conventional" audio amp build in protection with Zobel, decoupling inductor to be safe with any wire/loudspeaker load

if you use exotic high C cable you may be able to see peaking/ringing with the bad cable C resonating with output inductor - way above audible frequency and only with square waves or other test signal - doesn't happen with music

some tube amp output transformers may show peaking at high audio without a load - still shouldn't oscillate or blow up

you really have to go to audiophile extremes to find people selling amps that have a problem without a load connected

Quote:

Originally Posted by preproman 

What makes you say this?  Have you compared both yourself?  

 

The specs you posted look less than appealing for the HE-6. Where the mini X is rated at 50wpc @8 ohms.  Who's to say one is higher quality than the other?  I have not heard either so I can't comment.  

 

There have been good reports on both amps with the HE-6.

I have not compared both myself, but I have seen one person on HF who owns both amps and the HE6 sell the mini-X and keep the Trends, several mini-Xs go up for sale on the marketplace by HE6 owners, and a number of us who either own or have reasonable experience with summit-fi rigs hear the duo and have very positive impressions given that a used set goes for around $1k.

amcananey's post is consistent with my impressions after hearing the Trends 10.2SE+HE6 multiple times.  I like the Trends with the HE6 more than the Super 7 or WA5-LE.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/566564/he-6-powered-by-a-need-help/45#post_8331302

If you're not convinced, try googling reviews on the Trends TA-10.2SE for powering speakers.  It's a good amp, and has racked up a lot of awards.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2011/05/trends-ta-102-se-class-t-integrated-amplifier/

(Awards list on the right-side of the page under 'Trends TA-10 Class-T Stereo Amplifier' header) http://www.trendsaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37&Itemid=28

Dr. Roberts: No problem.  If you're happy with both the Calypso and BAT, I'd just stay there and be done.  If you're not hearing clipping or distortion, and the detail retrieval is comparable to a stat rig, you're in a good place.  I'd recommend keeping an eye out for an authentic First Watt amp if you ever run across one which you can hook your HE6 up to.  The Placette+J2+HE6 is the best dynamic rig I've ever heard, and given the gear in my profile, I have a strong preference for stats over dynamics.  The HE6 gets equal time as my BHSE setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 

 

I have not compared both myself, but I have seen one person on HF who owns both amps and the HE6 sell the mini-X and keep the Trends, several mini-Xs go up for sale on the marketplace by HE6 owners, and a number of us who either own or have reasonable experience with summit-fi rigs hear the duo and have very positive impressions given that a used set goes for around $1k.

 

amcananey's post is consistent with my impressions after hearing the Trends 10.2SE+HE6 multiple times.  I like the Trends with the HE6 more than the Super 7 or WA5-LE.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/566564/he-6-powered-by-a-need-help/45#post_8331302

 

If you're not convinced, try googling reviews on the Trends TA-10.2SE for powering speakers.  It's a good amp, and has racked up a lot of awards.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2011/05/trends-ta-102-se-class-t-integrated-amplifier/

(Awards list on the right-side of the page under 'Trends TA-10 Class-T Stereo Amplifier' header) http://www.trendsaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37&Itemid=28

 

Dr. Roberts: No problem.  If you're happy with both the Calypso and BAT, I'd just stay there and be done.  If you're not hearing clipping or distortion, and the detail retrieval is comparable to a stat rig, you're in a good place.  I'd recommend keeping an eye out for an authentic First Watt amp if you ever run across one which you can hook your HE6 up to.  The Placette+J2+HE6 is the best dynamic rig I've ever heard, and given the gear in my profile, I have a strong preference for stats over dynamics.  The HE6 gets equal time as my BHSE setup.

Convinced? no.  Not until I judge for myself.  I remember the thread and the posts that amcananey made.  However, that thread starter has a mini X now and is much satisfied with it.  

You say several mini X go up for sale by HE-6 owners?  Where?  What market place?  Not this one...

Because you have experience with "summit-fi rigs" does not mean a thing when a amp is priced under $200 and can give the same or better performance than a amp that cost over 1K.

It really doesn't bother me none.  I'm not interested in either amp.  I have my eyes set on a threshold if I can get my hands on one at a good price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx 

I don't know of any SS amp that requires a load - some don't like too much C from ESL, piezo tweeters or exotic Low L cables - and most "conventional" audio amp build in protection with Zobel, decoupling inductor to be safe with any wire/loudspeaker load

 

if you use exotic high C cable you may be able to see peaking/ringing with the bad cable C resonating with output inductor - way above audible frequency and only with square waves or other test signal - doesn't happen with music

 

some tube amp output transformers may show peaking at high audio without a load - still shouldn't oscillate or blow up

 

you really have to go to audiophile extremes to find people selling amps that have a problem without a load connected

So, if I am understanding you correctly, removing the 10 ohm resistors I have connected to the 8 ohm taps of my tubed BAT amp would not cause a problem listening to the HE-6 at a reasonable volume level. Using them is a pain in the butt since the BAT also serves to power loudspeakers.

Balanced Audio Technology? for the price of their products they better answer the phone, email - just ask if they have a required load - or if 50 Ohms works - with speced 200 kHz response a Zobel series RC protection load would be practical. wouldn't interfere with audio could be left permanently connected

there are warnings out there that at full volume output some unloaded tube amps may arc internally

but you shouldn't need full volume for the HE_6

if the story is correct the 6C66 is a military tube for avionics - should be ridiculously rugged, have large external clearance for operation at altitude where air breakdown V drops

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx 

Balanced Audio Technology? for the price of their products they better answer the phone, email - just ask if they have a required load - or if 50 Ohms works - with speced 200 kHz response a Zobel series RC protection load would be practical. wouldn't interfere with audio could be left permanently connected

 

there are warnings out there that at full volume output some unloaded tube amps may arc internally

 

but you shouldn't need full volume for the HE_6

 

if the story is correct the 6C66 is a military tube for avionics - should be ridiculously rugged, have large external clearance for operation at altitude where air breakdown V drops

I did email Victor K., the man himself.

Most of the time there would be a resistor in series with the headphones, otherwise they might be getting too much signal and perhaps suffer a damage.

This, in reality, is the question for their producer, they should suggest the proper way of connecting it to the power amp’s output. From our perspective we would not know.

Regards,

Victor

You are correct. The 6C33C-B was used in the Russian Mig. When you inject a Zobel filter into the discussion you lose me since I am not technically proficient enough to understand how to implement the device.