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Ocharaku Flat-4 KAEDE (Maple) - Page 52

post #766 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

Please try this track with your JVCs and tell me what you hear; on the Kaedes the bass is very, very tight AND textured, perfectly delineated notes. The sound of the drums is absolutely brilliant, and even the violin here has excellent timbre. Once again, soundstage and layering are simply terrific (BTW, no treble harshness at all): http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Wild+The+Beautiful+And+The+Damned/1Va72r?src=5  or the youtube version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=savx6aY0nEw

 

Sounds great to me with the JVCs too, tight and controlled without midrange bleeding. Too bad my SUIs are on tour and I can't A/B these right now.

 

Back when I had the chance to A/B the SUIs to my favorite IEMs, their bass consistently struck me as just a tad less defined. Nothing glaringly faulty though, more like a picture that's ever so slightly out of focus, a tiny bit blurred...

 

Then I sent my pair to Rin for measurements, and when I read his analysis, his description of a "funky after-resonance in the bass" (caused by the rear driver's time delay), I thought, well that finally is the explanation for what I heard. So, either the KAEDE are just different and less "funky" in bass, or some ears perceive their after-resonance as texture rather than a blur (note that Rin actually lists it as a plus!).

post #767 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkrs01 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

I would be very interested if you share your thoughts of the Kaede and the FI-BA-SS.

 

Many thanks!

 

 

Sorry for the short delay, but as promised, and after a very short A/B session, here's a few things I noticed:

 

The biggest differences are in soundstage, layering and tonality. The soundstage is unquestionably owned by the Kaedes with their impressive enveloping sound; add some unique layering and the Kaedes have a more 3-D type of presentation. Tonality, on the whole, is owned by the FIBASS mostly due to the excellent blending of mid-bass, mids & lower treble (upper mids).

 

  • The FIBASS sounds raw, innocent—too innocent perhaps, at times—but very true, with no gimmicks, so to speak.

 

  • The Kaede has a cleaner sound.

 

  • The SS's midrange definitely has the upper hand, being more forward & better defined, with a thicker note weight.

 

  • The Kaedes extend more at both ends of the spectrum and are a little more revealing than the already very revealing SS. The Kaedes, however, don't make such details seem forced upon you (at least not to me), they just fly by 'unexpectedly', in very exciting ways that grab your attention. The SS's details are more 'humble' in how they're presented, they're not as separated from the rest of the instruments as they can be on the Kaedes, and in that sense may often resemble more what we hear in the real world, but not always.

 

  • Lower treble / high-mids is generally more faithful on the SS, but on some recordings the Kaedes sound absolutely right.

 

  • While the SS's bass is impressive for a single-BA phone, the Kaede's bass is clearly a step up: cleaner, tighter and more precise.

 

  • Classical orchestral pieces sound more 2-D on the SS and more 3-D on the Kaedes, but the SS can sound more faithful in a way, as if you were listening to some excellent mono recording as opposed to some new-er stereo / enhanced recording (the Kaedes have a more wow effect here). Depending on the recording I use, I can be drawn to either.

 

  • The Kaedes render rock & pop music more convincingly — drums, some percussion & bass definitely take the cake here as well as making the sound grander thanks to the Kaede's imaging & layering.

 

  • Solo piano, flute & violin pieces are rendered, to these ears, better by the FI-BA-SS (it's mostly the midrange that causes this), with and overall more convincing tone. Rendering of string quartets can vary on both phones, so it's a matter of choice: lower notes sound fuller, powerful, with authority on the kaedes, while mid and higher notes sound more so on the SS — it's the blending of the whole that will depend which phone draws me more.

 

  • Jazz is impressive on the Kaedes and I think, on the whole, I like them more with this genre, but again, it depends which piece is being played, what instruments and which freqs dominate said piece. The FIBASS are no slouch, however.


**Take these comments with a pinch of salt as my A/B'ing was far too brief**

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Sounds great to me with the JVCs too, tight and controlled without midrange bleeding. Too bad my SUIs are on tour and I can't A/B these right now.

 

Back when I had the chance to A/B the SUIs to my favorite IEMs, their bass consistently struck me as just a tad less defined. Nothing glaringly faulty though, more like a picture that's ever so slightly out of focus, a tiny bit blurred...

 

Then I sent my pair to Rin for measurements, and when I read his analysis, his description of a "funky after-resonance in the bass" (caused by the rear driver's time delay), I thought, well that finally is the explanation for what I heard. So, either the KAEDE are just different and less "funky" in bass, or some ears perceive their after-resonance as texture rather than a blur (note that Rin actually lists it as a plus!).

 

Well, I guess in the meantime we should wait for others, who have done / can do a direct comparison, to chime in.

I note R writes (in reference to the SUIs): "The treble is extremely harsh in virtually uncontrollable manner" — definitely not how I hear the Kaedes, unless perhaps 6 months of almost daily HD800 treble therapy has had an affect (read: music_4321 has become immune to harsh treble and maybe hasn't realised the 160Xs are also treble-head phones!)

Then again, there's also the possibility Mr Yamagishi found ways to improve / rectify / tweak the (original) SUIs for the later models / iterations (KAEDE & KURO).

 

I say Mr Utterly Uncool—in the interest of science, the ever-increasing and desperate (spoilt brat type) needs of some of the wealthiest members of the our community, plus the need to keep fuelling the skyrocketing popularity of Rin that has caused the serious derailment of several threads and given birth to a new religion—could always try to source a pair of Kaedes and see (hear, rather) for himself if they are indeed an upgrade over the SUIs, or if not an upgrade, a slightly different flavour.


Edited by music_4321 - 7/9/13 at 12:25am
post #768 of 1092
music_4321

I thank you very much for the above listening notes and by sharing similar thoughts as you on the Kaede, it is indeed very helpful in allowing me to make a decision regarding the FAD.

Thanks again
post #769 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

I note R writes (in reference to the SUIs): "The treble is extremely harsh in virtually uncontrollable manner" — definitely not what I've been hearing, unless perhaps 6 months of almost daily HD800 treble therapy has had an affect (read: music_4321 has become immune to harsh treble and maybe hasn't realised the 160Xs are also treble-head phones!)

 

As I understand that quote, Rin is commenting on his measurements, not on listening impressions. In the context of FR graphs, "extremely harsh treble" pretty much means "wild up and down swings in treble" (in this case a sharp notch at 6kHz in between two steep spikes).

 

Similarly to how you describe the KAEDE, I don't perceive the SUI's treble as offensive either. So, from my point of view as a listener, I'd say that a "harsh frequency response" doesn't necessarily translate into something I'd describe as "harsh sounding". However, in case of the SUI, I feel that their highs sound slightly thin and sometimes bordering on sharp, which emphasizes detail, but sacrifices a bit of transparency.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

I say Mr Utterly Uncool—in the interest of science, the ever-increasing and desperate (spoilt brat type) needs of some of the wealthiest members of the our community, plus the need to keep fuelling the skyrocketing popularity of Rin that has caused the serious derailment of several threads and given birth to a new religion—could always try to source a pair of Kaedes and see (hear, rather) for himself if they are indeed an upgrade over the SUIs, or if not an upgrade, a slightly different flavour.

 

confused.gif (not sure I'm getting the full meaning of this amazing, er, sentence)

post #770 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

I say Mr Utterly Uncool—in the interest of science, the ever-increasing and desperate (spoilt brat type) needs of some of the wealthiest members of the our community, plus the need to keep fuelling the skyrocketing popularity of Rin that has caused the serious derailment of several threads and given birth to a new religion—could always try to source a pair of Kaedes and see (hear, rather) for himself if they are indeed an upgrade over the SUIs, or if not an upgrade, a slightly different flavour.

 


confused.gif (not sure I'm getting the full meaning of this amazing, er, sentence)

 

The less politically correct version of that sentence goes more or less like this: Hey James, why don't you get a pair of KAEDEs (from Musica Acoustics possibly, if still available) and give us your take on them for several of us would be very interested to hear what you have to say about them. That might also give some Keade owners the chance to eventually sell their sets at double / triple the price they paid. In addition, you will have the opportunity to send your Kaedes to R, which will most likely cause a stir—wreak havoc—on this otherwise peaceful and civil thread making it 'so much fun' in the process.

post #771 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

The less politically correct version of that sentence goes more or less like this: Hey James, why don't you get a pair of KAEDEs (from Musica Acoustics possibly, if still available) and give us your take on them for several of us would be very interested to hear what you have to say about them. That might also give some Keade owners the chance to eventually sell their sets at double / triple the price they paid. In addition, you will have the opportunity to send your Kaedes to R, which will most likely cause a stir—wreak havoc—on this otherwise peaceful and civil thread making it 'so much fun' in the process.

 

Thanks. I suspected you were being a bit stupid grumpy here, but wasn't entirely sure. wink.gif

post #772 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

Interesting — wish I'd auditioned the FX700s when I had a chance to do so two years ago (but stupidly declined the offer), so I could give you my take on those in relation to the Kaedes (from memory, of course).

Your comments, though, re: the SUI's bass make me wonder, too, just how different these two F4 models really are, or if ther might be fit-related issue here perhaps. Please try this track with your JVCs and tell me what you hear; on the Kaedes the bass is very, very tight AND textured, perfectly delineated notes. The sound of the drums is absolutely brilliant, and even the violin here has excellent timbre. Once again, soundstage and layering are simply terrific (BTW, no treble harshness at all): http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Wild+The+Beautiful+And+The+Damned/1Va72r?src=5  or the youtube version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=savx6aY0nEw

 

Sounds great to me with the JVCs too, tight and controlled without midrange bleeding. Too bad my SUIs are on tour and I can't A/B these right now.

 

Back when I had the chance to A/B the SUIs to my favorite IEMs, their bass consistently struck me as just a tad less defined. Nothing glaringly faulty though, more like a picture that's ever so slightly out of focus, a tiny bit blurred...

 

James, last try here. If you could please try this track with your FX700s, I'd like to hear what you make of it. Now, there's no actual bass guitar in this track, the bass/low notes are played with an organ (pedals, to be precise, so fairly thick-sounding). My question is, can you (clearly) distinguish / 'separate' / 'isolate' the 'bass' notes with your JVCs without too much effort? http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Sleepwalkers/4BHstu?src=5


Edited by music_4321 - 7/10/13 at 4:48am
post #773 of 1092

Now that I've had a few days with my Kaede, I thought I'd share my preliminary thoughts on it. I won't be writing a full review on it as it seems many of you have already given a very thorough impressions of it - not to mention I actually am late for reviews for some other products that I need to return very soon.

 

This impressions is based off my recently re-acquired HM-901 however I don't believe my thoughts would change if it were off the DX100 or RWAK100. There will be a comparison with the 1Plus2 with standard Tralucent Silver Cables, and with Tralucent's (prototype? Mass produced?) black tips which seem to resemble Sony's but it's not. The Kaedes will be the standard Complys that come with it.

 

  • The Kaedes sound really spacious with lots of room for instruments and vocals to breath! I know a lot of people have commented about the 1Plus2's super large soundstage and even I wrote that when I reviewed the 1Plus2 at the beginning of this year but there's something about the Kaedes that just sounds huge. This seems to further help instrument separation. However, I feel in this case the 1Plus2's soundstage is capped (by comparison to the Kaedes) primarily due to the silver cables. I definitely want to test this again when I get my Uber cable back.
  • The Kaedes seem to take a middle row seating from the stage whilst the 1Plus2 is more front row seating. Whether related or not, I feel the Kaedes more mellow than the 1Plus2 but not to the level of the FitEar TG!334 mellow. The 1Plus2 has the edge on an agressive sound. As such, I think if I listen to Chris Botti for example, I'd prefer the Kaede's. But if I want to listen to Katy Perry, Usher, or Cher Lloyd, I think I may lean more towards the 1Plus2.
  • The Kaedes do seem to have this slight dip in the lower mids or upper bass. I think that's why (many months ago) I may have told EveTan that some vocals may sound nasally? However where that bothered me a few months back whilst testing EveTan's Kaede's, it's surprisingly hasn't bothered me 2nd round (and with a longer test).
  • The trebles on the Kaede has a very nice air and shimmer to it. This was one aspect where I was worried as I had read (and been cautioned) about potential sibilance of the Kaedes but for some reason it hasn't affected me as much as I thought it would. Some tracks still do but not as much as the 1Plus2 with Ortofon tips, and silver cables. I think that spaciousness in the first point has a part to play in my thoughts here. I would love to see the CSD waterfall plots on the Kaedes vs the 1Plus2. However, what's proving the 1Plus2 to be versatile is if the tips were changed to either the FitEar or the Tralucent black tips, and more importantly the silver cable changed to the Uber, that sibilance can be tamed.

 

Here are my initial impressions for now. I'll probably do another round of comparison when I get my Uber cable back.

post #774 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

James, last try here. If you could please try this track with your FX700s, I'd like to hear what you make of it. Now, there's no actual bass guitar in this track, the bass/low notes are played with an organ (pedals, to be precise, so fairly thick-sounding). My question is, can you (clearly) distinguish / 'separate' / 'isolate' the 'bass' notes with your JVCs without too much effort? http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Sleepwalkers/4BHstu?src=5

 

Never mind, James. Honestly. Please don't bother (waste time) testing the track above (I do mean it). I know what I'm hearing and all I can say is either the SUIs & KEADEs are more different than you and I thought, we're getting a different fit… or we simply value the strengths (and weaknesses) of these seemingly very similarly sounding phones differently. I really think the KAEDEs are an exceptionally good sounding phone (though, as noted already, not perfect).

Anyway, as it often happens, I had one of my many playlists on random mode, and these two tracks came on: http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Hell+Of+A+Life/3mqJtM?src=5 and http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Glory+Electricity/2v6Ndr?src=5

… and then it just suddenly dawned on me, "Wait, I know what I've been hearing all along, and what I've been hearing is seriously good. If people recognise the quality of the KAEDEs / F4s, great, if not, cool — who cares about whether people agree with me or not, anyway? My credibility (or lack thereof) matters little to me, TBH" One thing I've always appreciated about you, as you well know, is that you tell it like it is (unlike others who claim to do do)—and that is quite rare in this place with so much bias and plenty of BS—and you also know you and I haven't always quite agreed, but, more often than not, we often have. All I can say, though, is that if these two F4 models are sonically very, very close, the little respect I had for you has now completely gone out the window!

 

--------------

 

EDIT:

 

AnackChan, interesting impressions (just seen your post now) — good to have someone else, apart from 'everyone's favourite HF'er', post in this thread and give their impressions!


Edited by music_4321 - 7/10/13 at 7:23am
post #775 of 1092
Quote:

good to have someone else, apart from 'everyone's favourite HF'er', post in this thread and give their impressions!

 

Why thank you!  wink.gif

post #776 of 1092

'Everyone's favourite HF'er' --> cooperpwc

Everyone's favourite HF'er ---> music_4321

 ;)

post #777 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

'Everyone's favourite HF'er' --> cooperpwc

Everyone's favourite HF'er ---> music_4321

 ;)

Are we talking about my ex-wife - who after a few years of marriage became everyone's favorite heifer?

post #778 of 1092
Oh man.
post #779 of 1092

The KAEDEs are quite simply an incredible phone. Hats off to Mr Yamagishi, his undeniable passion & knowledge — that such a small portable device is capable of delivering such sonics is absolutely remarkable.

http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Baby+s+On+Fire/4i7ZNF?src=5  (woodcans, I think you'll really appreciate RF's guitar on this one, too)

http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Dead+Finks+Don+t+Talk/4iNrBi?src=5

 

----------------------

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post

Are we talking about my ex-wife - who after a few years of marriage became everyone's favorite heifer?

 

  :)

post #780 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post

Are we talking about my ex-wife - who after a few years of marriage became everyone's favorite heifer?

 

 

 That's absolutely phenomenal.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

The KAEDEs are quite simply an incredible phone. Hats off to Mr Yamagishi, his undeniable passion & knowledge — that such a small portable device is capable of delivering such sonics is absolutely remarkable.

http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Baby+s+On+Fire/4i7ZNF?src=5  (woodcans, I think you'll really appreciate RF's guitar on this one, too)

http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Dead+Finks+Don+t+Talk/4iNrBi?src=5

 

----------------------

 

 

  :)

 

 

Now that I have several in agreement, as far as I can tell, I think my initial impressions were quite spot-on. *woodcans pats self on back*

 

(I'm sure I will. Thanks to you my 3003 budget has been blown on great music. Oh, the irony!)

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