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Ocharaku Flat-4 KAEDE (Maple) - Page 48

post #706 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

@ Music_4321

It's a banner day, this is the very first time I've ever run across you being jovial. Those Kaede's must sound remarkable tongue.gif

The grumpy sparrow is always only grumpy. Your observation of potential 'jovialness' on the part of said sparrow is misguided and you should really read more of his posts before ever contemplating that he might actually enjoy a headphone much less be jovial about its description.
post #707 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodcans View Post

 

@music: Do the 3003's have that level of micro detail, speed & timing that make you feel like you are in the recording studio, like the Kaede seems to do?

 

Okay, first I need to point out again that I really dislike A/B'ing gear. Also, I haven't listened to my HD800s for about 3 weeks due to a trip I made recently; and then the very hot weather we've been having lately in my neck of the woods. During my trip I only listened to my FI-BA-SS and only during the plane & tube journeys but nothing at all during my the quiet times I had (had taken my K3003s for that purpose but they got no ear-time at all in the end). Back home it's been mostly my 160Xs. Why mention all of this? Because our auditory memory isn't always as reliable as we'd like to think and both the HD800s & K3003s are sonically very closely related (as I and others have mentioned already a couple of times).

Anyway, took out my K3003s today for about 10 mins (after reading your post) to get a fresh new feel for them. I won't really talk about speed or time (what do you mean by "time", BTW?) in relation to the Kaedes, but will do a comparison later and report back.

So, a few very brief differences between the Kaedes & K3003s:

 

---  The K3003s, like the HD800s are a very revealing phone, so micro-details should not be an issue at all.

---  I wasn't wrong when I said the midrange was somewhat recessed on the F4s (wasn't 100% sure when I said so earlier because of my recent constant use of the [very] mid-forward 160Xs). The K3003's mids are a clear step above the Kaede's midrange, as they sound fuller, more detailed and crystal clear (though I wouldn't call them lush, a la 334's).

--- The top end, again, is more refined, with a thicker note and a very realistic timbre. In comparison, the Kaede's treble may even seem a tad grainy, even when there's more air to it higher up. I believe the type of the BA drivers used by AKG here, and the tuning of these, account for the differences in the mid & upper frequencies.

--- In the low-end department, the Kaede's may have the slight upper hand in texture (just like the EX1000's bass sometimes did), but not necessarily in extension — certainly the slight dip in the Kaede's midrange allows the bass on these phones to shine. I haven't compared bass (speed) directly, but my guess is that the Kaede's may be a tad more proficient in that area (perhaps two DDs and the Kaede's own technology achieve this). However, I've never personally had bass (speed) issues with the AKGs — on busy passages they keep up excellently, but I have to say that in my music library I have no speed metal, for instance, recordings, BTW, that normally leave a lot to be desired. However, busy classical orchestral passages are rendered wonderfully, as well as, FWIW, the four Tool albums I have.

---  The K3003's soundstage is very impressive, too, and though perhaps slightly less enveloping than the Kaede's, it is also most definitely very headphone-like.  

---  One very important aspect of the K3003s, and one that a couple of K3003 owners have found to be one of the AKG's strong suits—this was first brought to light by james444 just over 1.5 years ago, BTW—is just how remarkably well the AKGs perform at low volumes (never heard an IEM that has come close to this particular aspect of the K3003s). The Kaede's need a bit more juice / volume to become the very exciting / fun phone that they are.

---  As for a recording studio sound, I find both the HD800s & K3003s to be closer to being in a studio than the Kaedes. In that sense both the HD800s & AKGs are definitely more reference sounding, though never boring or clinical (at least for me). Dynamic range, on the whole, is a step up on the AKGs.

 

---  I believe the K3003's solid stainless steel housings (made of a single piece of steel [read: no seams] may account for part of it's excellent and very clean sound, BTW; this clean sound is another aspect I highly value on this IEM.

---  I'll say this again, though — to me the Kaedes are a very fun-sounding phone, but definitely a high-quality fun sound, ie there's real texture, unexpectedly brilliant layering, extension and, on the whole, excellent timbre, but, as a sonic package, the K3003s, to these ears, are a step up. BUT, just like with almost any phone, I can see some people preferring the Kaedes over the AKGs, just like I've seen a couple of people preferring the IE800s over the K3003s.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spkrs01 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

I would be very interested if you share your thoughts of the Kaede and the FI-BA-SS.

 

Many thanks!

 

Please give me a day or two and I'll get back to you on that one.

post #708 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

@ Music_4321

 

It's a banner day, this is the very first time I've ever run across you being jovial. Those Kaede's must sound remarkable tongue.gif

 

Maybe I should go back and edit / delete my post — I wouldn't want people to think that our cranky ageing and crippling sparrow may have the odd happy moment (or two) in his life!

post #709 of 1093
nice comparison music. is the kaede brighter than the k3003?
post #710 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by up late View Post

nice comparison music. is the kaede brighter than the k3003?

 

Hmm… their brightness is different. The K3003's brightness is more HD800-like, more direct yet very clear and precise, with better timbral qualities. The Kaede's brightness is a bit on the thin side of things, somewhat fuzzy (that's why I described them as "a tad grainy", but only in relation to the AKGs), but there's a bit more air in the higher freqs. So, in all honesty, some might actually find the Kaede's treble more appealing, and others the K3003's. To me, the K3003's treble resembles more what I hear in the real world — percussion & high violin notes, in particular, sound more convincing on the AKGs.

 

 

--------------------------------



Well, here's a very, very, very pleasant surprise — and apologies in advance to eke & ianmedium (if the latter's following this thread) for the choice of music in this post.

 

Okay now, there's this terribly underrated KC album, underrated due, I'm positive, to the questionable sonics: the whole album was recorded on DAT (on purpose, it later transpired, for a number of reasons) and then mixed, but there's only so much you can do under the circumstances… Anyway, the album tends to often sound a bit too congested, to put it mildly, on most phones. My K3003s do a decent job, but it was through the EX1000s that I first almost enjoyed the actual sonics presented here. Now, the Kaedes, for some strange reason only known to them, manage to squeeze a bit of extra sonic juice — brilliant, I say!

 

So, here's a track from the album, a track that sounds pretty congested / poor on most (good) phones, making it difficult for the true qualities of the music to 'come to the surface': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYG4ycwtUSo The WAV version I'm listening to now out of my MBP > V200 > Keade obviously sounds better still. (Note to woodcans: the piano part from 4:12 onwards is actually a guitar played by RF)

post #711 of 1093

.


Edited by music_4321 - 7/6/13 at 9:44pm
post #712 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
 (Note to woodcans: the piano part from 4:12 onwards is actually a guitar played by RF)

 

 

I continue to enjoy and be thoroughly impressed. Thank you once again. RF certainly sounds like a piano (during most of it) and I love it.

 

-wc


Edited by woodcans - 7/6/13 at 8:23pm
post #713 of 1093
thanks music. the kaede caught my eye a while back. luv the artisan thang they've got going on. the Japanese make cool gear.
post #714 of 1093

It is becoming harder and harder to resist this year long temptation. 

post #715 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

 

Bright? Yes. Subilant? No. Fatiguing? With a minority of hot music, yes; generally any IEM with more treble will be more fatiguing relative to a dark sound signature.

 

Should you buy it? Well... there might be 25 more out there. The Kuros might be a good alternative, unlimited a at a better price. You might not like them. Lots of mights...

 

My advice would be mortgage your grandmother, sell your first born, embrace the locusts, do whatever you have to do to get the $900 to grab one of the few remaining KAEDEs. To say that these are better than what I was hoping for when I ordered will be my new high water mark for understatements. (And I had not heard them first either; for most of us, that is impossible.) I am about 25 hours in and they are sweet now. Music is rediscovered on these IEMs. The soundstage is da bomb. Today it was Barenaked Ladies, Waterboys and B52s, each an old favourite and now a new experience.

 

Had another long listening session last night and experienced absolutely no fatigue or treble harshness. With the new Ortofon tips I'm now using I can turn the volume up and the bass never becomes 'a pain', quite the contrary, I just marvel at the tremendous quality of the low-end on these phones.

 

Regarding the bolded text above, although in my case I wouldn't put it quite that way, I continue to be impressed — the Kaede really is a superb IEM which certainly has exceeded my expectations; a very, very engaging IEM with a soundstage to die for. If the SUIs & KUROs are (very) close sonically to the KAEDEs—as I suspect they are in several ways—then I have no reservations recommending those two cheaper options.

post #716 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

With the new Ortofon tips I'm now using I can turn the volume up and the bass never becomes 'a pain', quite the contrary, I just marvel at the tremendous quality of the low-end on these phones.

 

I am interested in these Ortofon tips. I don't think that I am willing to pay shipping (which is more than the tips) but I hope to eventually find a set in Hong Kong. Meanwhile the FAD Heaven series B tips (larger holes) are proving to be a very good silicon alternative to Comply TS foamies.

 

(TF10 tips may be too; I will find out in about 10 days.)

 

Bass quality indeed. String bass (double bass, whatever you want to call it) is something special on the KAEDE.

post #717 of 1093

I'm finding that the Ortofon tips are comfortable but I lose the "edge" off my sound with the Kaedes.  I preferred the stock Complys.  Your mileage may vary.  It sounds like they worked really well for musicalnewb_FADfanboy_1234.

 

Brilliant IEMs.  Still prefer the Kuro but the Kaede will make good trade bait for those who are too slow (in the head) to get the Kaede's while they last.

 

Mwhahahaha.  Check the FS forum at 4AM every day for more details of my nefarious plans.  PS: buy a Piano Forte IX and burn it in for me.

post #718 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

 

I am interested in these Ortofon tips. I don't think that I am willing to pay shipping (which is more than the tips) but I hope to eventually find a set in Hong Kong. Meanwhile the FAD Heaven series B tips (larger holes) are proving to be a very good silicon alternative to Comply TS foamies.

 

(TF10 tips may be too; I will find out in about 10 days.)

 

Bass quality indeed. String bass (double bass, whatever you want to call it) is something special on the KAEDE.

 

As you well know, at the end of the day there's no guarantee the Ortofon tips will do the trick for you, but do try them if you can get them at a decent price (BTW, I only tried the 'old' FI-BA-SS / SB tips and have not tried the new Heaven tips as I don't have any of the new Heaven models).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by utdeep View Post

I'm finding that the Ortofon tips are comfortable but I lose the "edge" off my sound with the Kaedes.  I preferred the stock Complys.  Your mileage may vary.  It sounds like they worked really well for musicalnewb_FADfanboy_1234.

 

Brilliant IEMs.  Still prefer the Kuro but the Kaede will make good trade bait for those who are too slow (in the head) to get the Kaede's while they last.

 

Mwhahahaha.  Check the FS forum at 4AM every day for more details of my nefarious plans.  PS: buy a Piano Forte IX and burn it in for me.

 

Sorry if I seem a bit anal as I know you mean well, but I'd honestly appreciate if you could spell my name correctly: musicaln00b_FADfanboy_4321

 

 

-------------------



Okay now, things are getting interesting…

Here's a track I absolutely love, and I've never heard a phone render it quite as well is the Kaedes — layering, once again, is absolutely superb and detail retrieval simply astonishing. I took out my K3003s and even my HD800s to compare and none of them rendered this track quite like the Kaedes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-qpk8CBTG0 (woodcans, if you've so far enjoyed some of the music of KC & RF's guitar, you must get this album)

On the other hand, on last night's long session I noticed the Kaedes didn't work too well with The Beatles' Penny Lane—issues with the midrange—, While My Guitar Gently Weeps (acoustic version off the Beatles Anthology Vol 3)—same midrange issues—, and Garbage's Vow (again, unconvincing midrange and some weird atmospherics, the whole thing sounded pretty off). I must note, however, these are some of the few tracks I've not been too convinced about with the Kaedes, which, with over 90% of the music I've thrown at them so far, are unquestionably a very fine, serious top-performing IEM.

post #719 of 1093

Apologies for yet another post, but this one... well... simply WOW! (through the Kaedes): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HAwoNwqalA  (guess one could say I'm really liking these phones)

post #720 of 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 I just marvel at the tremendous quality of the low-end on these phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post

Bass quality indeed. String bass (double bass, whatever you want to call it) is something special on the KAEDE.

 

In that case I wonder if the SUI are really that similar to the KAEDE, since their bass quality actually left me rather unimpressed.

 

To my ears the (loosely sealed) FX700 top them in bass definition / detail, as do the EX1000, and even my $50 Novodio IHX (though the latter have way too much quantity).

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