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Ocharaku Flat-4 KAEDE (Maple) - Page 18

post #256 of 1102

First of all, thanks for all the replies. I think I have my conclusion. The Kaede's is not for me if I craved for vocals. However I might give them a try as soundstaging and imaging seems to be sublime.

 

Sorry for the not so organised and poor english...

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spkrs01 View Post

 

I think you need to decide whether the signature suits you....

 

The Kaede does image and soundstage wonderfully, however when a IEM has those characters, part and parcel of this is that, images within the soundstage are in proportion. So from that perspective the vocals can be classed as recessed from an IEM users perspective but the actual sound is wonderfully correct!

 

Other than SM3, I have Westone 4, CK100Pro and ER4P, and of all the them I prefer Westone 4 for all rounder. I stated SM3 above as my preferred sound signature to emphasis my liking of forward midrange. As long as it is not overly boomy or screechy, I am ready for any kind sound signature. However what I really appreciate is a sound which makes me don't want to take off the earphones.

 

I have a chance auditioning FX700, and the soundstage was very very impressive. So I definitely understand your praise for Kaede. In my opinion, the downsides of FX700 were the distant vocals and sometimes piercing high. From what I have read through this thread, I have the impression that Kaede might be the same case as FX700 in the midrange, if they portrayed music the same way.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Can't speak for the KAEDE, but the SUI is significantly less forward and lush in the mids than the SM3. Upper mids are thinner and treble is more agressive than on the polite Earsonics.

 

As a complement they'd be fine imo, but if you want something with more similar sound signature to the SM3, I'd highly recommend the TOGO 334 instead.

 

I have thought of the TOGO334, which seems to be perfect for my taste, if it is not for the price...

I read that the custom MH334 plays vocals better than TOGO334, which makes me think to as well save money for the custom version which (hopefully would) fits my ears perfectly, though at a heftier price.
 

Of all the earphones I listed above, SM3 has the most engaging midrange to my ears. I wonder if there are anything else which sound more engaging than SM3. So, I would say SM3 is an extreme, and I shouldn't have stated SM3 as my sound preference since this is a Kaede's thread. Actually I have more or less figured out that the Kaede is not about midrange, but how distant it is I was not able to speculate, thus the question I posted earlier.

 

FX700 would be great if the vocals sounded a little more closer, which I have hoped either SUI or Kaede would be. Since the sound of SUI and Kaede are said to be close to each other, and based on your comparison between FX700 and SUI, I deduce that Kaede places vocals too far away for my liking.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24 View Post

I can only speak of the Flat-4 SUI, but from what I understand, the Kaede and SUI are pretty similar. SUI definitely projects a larger stage than the SM3, with more emphasis on width and lateral depth vs. the SM3's more spherical presentation. The SUI beats out the SM3 in imaging IMO as the directional cues on the SM3 can sound off to me. It's immersive for sure, but the extreme intimacy and viscous midrange can result in a rather congested/claustrophobic sound. The F-4 tends to centralize vocals similar to the SM3, with instruments floating off to either side, suspended laterally in space; you can easily approximate the distance between instruments and vocals as everything is allotted ample room within this space. Vocals are dialed back perhaps two or three notches but can feel more distant depending upon the recording, they are however, clearer and more nuanced on the F-4, and it's actually easier to ingest the entirety of a piece of music given that there isn't this laser focus on any one element. I feel the intimate presentation of mid focused armature monitors can be pretty distracting, as listening to music can feel like trying to appreciate a painting from two feet away as opposed to ten; while being closer does bring an extreme degree of clarity to individual subjects you lose the overall focus on the composition as a whole, since various elements (vocals or guitars for instance) tend to pop out at you, distracting you at every turn. All in all, the F-4 will net you large gains in soundstage, detail, clarity, dynamic range, and bass/treble extension, but it won't impart that lush midrange if that's what you're after. Still, that same smooth presentation comes at a cost, as the SM3 is so smooth and forgiving that it tends to gloss over details and robs music of grit, edge and texture. I'd recommend the FAD Heaven VI as an upgrade if you enjoy the SM3's lush midrange (but not to the detriment of loss of detail), and I'd put the Flat-4 (SUI) and the FAD Heaven VI on a par, technically. 

 

So, SUI and Kaede are about soundstaging :) This seems to be the general consensus in this thread.

 

I can understand that extreme intimacy might sometimes make things feel congested, but I never have any claustrophobic experience with my SM3. This might sound weird, but I have choking feeling when listening to earphones with too powerful bass. The painting metaphor explains things very well, though I hope that I had a better eyesight to catch the details I want to inspect further even standing far from the painting, in this case vocals.

 

I will check on the FAD Heaven VI.


Edited by gravisily - 4/19/13 at 1:26am
post #257 of 1102

It goes both ways with IEMs with excessive vocals/forward mids I feel like my space is being invaded. As well as the sound being rather congested. In such situations is may be even easier to make out detail on those specific areas that are particularly boosted but at the expense of other areas. I'm more into balanced presentations where nothing is clearly stealing the show :).
 

post #258 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkrs01 View Post

The Kaede does image and soundstage wonderfully, however when a IEM has those characters, part and parcel of this is that, images within the soundstage are in proportion. So from that perspective the vocals can be classed as recessed from an IEM users perspective but the actual sound is wonderfully correct!

 

Great observation, and I think it's important to understand that we can't have everything at once in an IEM. From how we perceive distance and placement of sounds, I'd say forward / intimate vocals and a huge soundstage are pretty much mutually exclusive.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24 View Post

All in all, the F-4 will net you large gains in ... bass/treble extension,

 

Ermm, ... wink.gif

 

post #259 of 1102

Kaede is not only about soundstage. It is about clarity and speed / dynamics too.

post #260 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post


Ermm, ... wink.gif




Bu-bu- hearing is believing!

I kid.

I actually sat there after typing that up and zeroed in on that same section you quoted, knowing that I couldn't quite articulate what I was hearing there, (better presence?) but figured you'd swoop in to correct me if I was off the mark wink.gif

I'll be interested in seeing Rin's upcoming measurements of the F-4
post #261 of 1102

I still try to figure out whether something is wrong with my flat-4 SUI. When I use my ALO Mk2 + Ipod Touch at high volume level, I hear distortion especially with songs which has piano sounds. With AK100 (not RWAK100) as a source without amping it, i definitely have imbalance issue with SUI. Practically I can only use my AK100 amped with my RX Mk2. Even with this combination, I still hear distortion when I drive the SUI at mid to high volume. I know that the Flat-4  SUI reveals bad recordings. However I am talking here about 192kHz/ 24bit audiophile tracks, which supposed to be pretty much "very good".

 

Any comment/ suggestion would be appreciated, as I am thinking about sending this for repair.

 

Thanks

 

Harry

post #262 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

How exactly did you combine the UE with the sony hybrid tips? Doesn't it fall off?

post #263 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveTan View Post

How exactly did you combine the UE with the sony hybrid tips? Doesn't it fall off?

 

Put the smallest (red) Sony hybrid tips head-first onto the nozzle. Then slide the UE tips on top of their stems. Done.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

post #264 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Put the smallest (red) Sony hybrid tips head-first onto the nozzle. Then slide the UE tips on top of their stems. Done.

 

So I'll be needing smallest Sony hybrid tips + largest UE tips?

 

so,

 

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/ue/ue-earphones/accessories

 

And for the Hybrids, they only sell them in assorted packs right? http://www.amazon.com/Sony-EPEX10A-BLK-Replacement-Earbuds/dp/B001RB24UA/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1366434248&sr=1-1&keywords=sony+hybrid


Edited by EveTan - 4/19/13 at 10:05pm
post #265 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveTan View Post

 

And for the Hybrids, they only sell them in assorted packs right? http://www.amazon.com/Sony-EPEX10A-BLK-Replacement-Earbuds/dp/B001RB24UA/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1366434248&sr=1-1&keywords=sony+hybrid

They used to sell clones here though I don't have an updated listing (the person who used to stock them might not be stocking them anymore as well, from the looks of their store)  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/earbud-replacement-SONY-EP-EX10A-WILL-FIT-MANY-TYPES-/150438421011?nma=true&si=1rYMCeMfGfr4evvu5%252BjNoisaS%252F4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

VSonic, DUNU, and plenty of other companies have started to bundle them in their stock packaging as well. My GR01s and Craters have the Hybrid clones, and plenty of different sized other than the small, medium, and large. In terms of quality against the originals - http://www.head-fi.org/t/556257/sony-hybrid-vs-hybrid-clone


That being said, interested in getting a pair of these myself. Most are getting them from Musica, if I'm not mistaken?

post #266 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinQY View Post

 


That being said, interested in getting a pair of these myself. Most are getting them from Musica, if I'm not mistaken?

Musica, or services like PriceJapan should be fine.

 

I might just splurge on tips and get some Ortofon from Musica.

post #267 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Put the smallest (red) Sony hybrid tips head-first onto the nozzle. Then slide the UE tips on top of their stems. Done.

 


lol I did mine differently. I placed the large Sony hybrid tip over the large UE tip and pushed the inner tubing inside of the UE's one where they combine to form a good fit. I got some really nice sound from them as well. Especially in the treble region (really focuses it and refines it more). At the expense of sound staging though (more intimate sound). Seems to help the vocals as well.

post #268 of 1102

Just gave the combo tip a try. Don't have a UE tip, so I used the SS Sony hybrid tip coupled with an Aurisonics tip. Really diggin' the result 

post #269 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveTan View Post

So I'll be needing smallest Sony hybrid tips + largest UE tips?

 

Not necessarily the largest UE tips, you'd have to get the size that fits you. As for the hybrids, I have a bunch of them here and can send you a pair for free, if you PM me your address.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


lol I did mine differently. I placed the large Sony hybrid tip over the large UE tip and pushed the inner tubing inside of the UE's one where they combine to form a good fit. I got some really nice sound from them as well. Especially in the treble region (really focuses it and refines it more). At the expense of sound staging though (more intimate sound). Seems to help the vocals as well.

 

Yeah, I tried that one too, but ended up preferring the other option.

post #270 of 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Not necessarily the largest UE tips, you'd have to get the size that fits you. As for the hybrids, I have a bunch of them here and can send you a pair for free, if you PM me your address.

 

 

Yeah, I tried that one too, but ended up preferring the other option.

Thanks for the offer. It turns out I have some hybrids laying around in my desk. Well, I can't tell if they are or if they aren't. But they look pretty similar to the pics.

 

As for UE tips, if I comfortably wear the orange tips from the hybrids, what would that translate into UE tips? Mediums?

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