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Resonessence Labs Concero discussion/review thead - Page 57

post #841 of 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggo View Post

Hey Greggo. I know you didn't ask but I would seriously reconsider the HD700 as your end game. The HD700 has been pretty much a failure. I hear even Sennheiser thinks so (according to Sennheiser "insiders"). Why you might ask? It has an insane treble spike of death at 7k and the resonance will leave your ears bleeding. I would just get a used HD800 or a refurbished one. A used HE-500 or HE-6 won't be bad either. Just putting that out there so you do more research. The HD650s are golden for the price of course and also the HD600.

 

As for the Concero I think it beats the Bifrost (non-uber) quite handily. Not really even a question, but just dominance by the Concero in every way possible.

post #842 of 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Hey Greggo. I know you didn't ask but I would seriously reconsider the HD700 as your end game. The HD700 has been pretty much a failure. I hear even Sennheiser thinks so (according to Sennheiser "insiders"). Why you might ask? It has an insane treble spike of death at 7k and the resonance will leave your ears bleeding. I would just get a used HD800 or a refurbished one. A used HE-500 or HE-6 won't be bad either. Just putting that out there so you do more research. The HD650s are golden for the price of course and also the HD600.

 

As for the Concero I think it beats the Bifrost (non-uber) quite handily. Not really even a question, but just dominance by the Concero in every way possible.

For end game I would have to agree with M-13 here.  I took a listen to them and I have very treble sensitive ears and honestly I almost had my eardrums fall out of head after listening to the HD700 for a couple min.  The HD800 is something special but it does have a small spike in treble as well that I didn't like but you can mod that out of there if you are so inclined.  Also since orthos are listed here I would say consider a pair of LCD2's for end game as well.  

 

I think the concero still beats the bifrost with uber and 2nd gen usb.  

post #843 of 1907

Thanks guys... I understand the controversy around the HD700.  I have listened to them on just an iPhone and only for a few minutes.  I liked what I heard under the circumstances but I am concerned about long term enjoyment and secretly keeping the HE-500 and HD800 ready as alternates for my final acquisition.  I get a good discount on Senn and no options on HE-500, and many seem to feel the HD700 has a bit more body and less overall treble than HD800.  Given that my Q701s can wear me down after an hour so depending on the music selection, I definitely want something with more meat on the bones.  I think I will be more educated about what I really like when I get the HD650 and get some time behind them versus the Q701 on a dragonfly (not the best, but my interim solution while I plan for a strong DAC/Amp).

 

Given my preferences for articulate bass and visceral percussion I have been leaning towards HE-500 as the next choice if I bail on the HD700.  For me, they are the same price brand new, so it doesn't matter as long as I am convinced I get more long term smiles on my face with the HE-500 rather than the HD-700.  But if I go that route, I am even more concerned about DACs with built in amps unless they have a really good rep such as the still emerging impressions on the UDH-100, and if not then hence my keen interest in the G109.  If the UDH-100 develops a good rep over more time and sets of ears, I will go that route.  Otherwise, I might just go with a G109 connected to my dragonfly for while and then after another few months of saving up get either the original Concero or the HD version.

 

Thanks again for the advice.  Still listening and learning.


Edited by Greggo - 7/17/13 at 1:07pm
post #844 of 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcullinan View Post


I'm in agreement that the bass is lighter on speakers vs other dacs. Im thinking this may be different with headphones and the dac. Can anyone confirm. It's not necessarily a bad thing as sometimes too much bass can smother mid detail, not that that's the case.

Not sure what you mean by lighter, the output is indeed lower on the original. But I would not describe it as lighter. The original Concero for me bested the Aneido D2 and the Dacmini.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

This is great news as an original Concero owner. I agree there is some special magic in the Concero. It's really hard to describe, a sense of easy refinement that plays well with all music. Just to be clear are you using the latest sofware? I think it's version 2.0 and available on the Resonessence site.


Yes newest firmware on both.

post #845 of 1907
Thread Starter 

I've heard one HD700 that I thought sounded quite nice, and another that was pretty bad.... I'd say like any other headphones, it's down to individual variation between production models. But it seems a good HD700 is the exception rather than the rule! 

 

Concero plus G109 plus HD500 is a killer little setup. Not sure yet if Concero HP is a worthy alternative - seems really good out of the gate but I haven't had a ton of time on it. 

post #846 of 1907

I have no experience with the hd700, but Resonessence has referenced the headphone in their twitter page on a few occasions.

post #847 of 1907

@ kcee: Maybe they did a better job at DAC implementation with the original Concero? It's important to reinstate the fact how the Concero HD possesses a different DAC.

 

@ HD700...: Try it, and make your own decisions. In the end, it's your money. Personally not a fan of the HD700, but with that said, i'm not a fan of many things

post #848 of 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcee View Post

Not sure what you mean by lighter, the output is indeed lower on the original. But I would not describe it as lighter. The original Concero for me bested the Aneido D2 and the Dacmini.


Yes newest firmware on both.

Ive compared my old  Theta Chroma 396 NOS Dac with the Concero and the Theta has much more slam and the bass is more present. But in music that has subterranean bass, the Concero definitely plays it. I think its the way the Dacs are balanced, not really sure. I also compared the Concero with the Minimax DAC Plus with Dexa Discrete op amps and that Dac also had more slam, bass present. Could be tuning? Could be that those DACs have power supplies... Having the bass makes for a fuller more dynamic sound. This is on speakers, maybe headphones are different. Besides that and a little less detail, the Concero is an awesome DAC. Smooth top, which is one of the most important things to me. Good mids. Maybe the HD improves in the detail slam department?

post #849 of 1907
Thread Starter 

That Theta design uses the PCM67 which tends to be a warm, smooth sounding chip, roughly in the same vein as a PCM1704. It's an interesting design, hybrid R2R and sigma-delta. But it's definitely got some coloration to it. I haven't heard the 396 in ages but I'm not surprised it sounds warmer than Concero to your ears. 

post #850 of 1907

Warmer to me equals flabbier bass, not always mind you but alot of the time, maybe if it intrudes into the mix it seems more present for you.

But then again everyone perceives things different, especially when trying to quantify sounds with words.

 

Give me tight controlled bass that also reaches deeeeep. The concero has that in spades. Both the HD and Original.

post #851 of 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

That Theta design uses the PCM67 which tends to be a warm, smooth sounding chip, roughly in the same vein as a PCM1704. It's an interesting design, hybrid R2R and sigma-delta. But it's definitely got some coloration to it. I haven't heard the 396 in ages but I'm not surprised it sounds warmer than Concero to your ears. 

Yeah, Its an old DAC... has a lot more texture and detail in the upper registers than the Concero. The issue with the Theta is that it would get very congested sounding and can get bright. Using the Concero to feed it seems to get rid of that problem. Definitely colored as its probably known for its bass slam and not as refined as a modern dac, but that changes using the Concero. The other issue is that it wont play hi def files, they just go silent. I switch between both the Concero and Theta.. with my eye on the new Youlong :)

 

Bass is not flabby on either the Minimax or Theta, just a different presentation. Minimax is warmer sounding than the Concero for sure, it uses a tube. I think you can switch the tube out. 

post #852 of 1907

Tried to update my Concero and its bricked... Sigh... I was watching the steps and the last one just stayed blank. Nothing about unplugging the Concero etc.

post #853 of 1907
Contact Mark @ resonnessence maybe he has a solution
post #854 of 1907

I spent some additional time with the Concero HD yesterday.

NAD M51 is my benchmark, the best I've personally heard and spent time on. It probably is an unfair comparison since the NAD is more than 2x the $$$.

 

PROS

Resolution and detail retrieval are superb.

Bass is very tight, and it definitely goes deep.

Midrange and treble are crystal clear.

 

CONS

It is a little too neutral for my personal taste.

Nothing gets sugar coated (maybe a PRO for some)

Presentation is fuller and more relaxed with the M51, without losing any resolution.

 

In my book, Concero HD is a very good value.

You get 85% of the M51 + 100% of the Audiophilleo performance in a very small attractive package for roughly 1/3 of the combined cost of both components.

post #855 of 1907

Nice one ornitorrinco.

 

I am also finding the HD to not really sugar coat anything too.

A bad recording or low bitrate mp3 sounds well...not very good. Which indeed could be perceived as a plus.

 

On the other hand, the same files that sound harsh or emphasize the bad aspects of a poor recording on the HD sound considerably better on The Original.

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