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post #586 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

 

I'm sure this would probably apply to any dac with USB but it just seemed more noticeable than I had expected and really pulls out what the Concero is capable of.  This also would be more in line with Project86's review, since he uses a dedicated Auriliti music server, which I'm sure is already fully optimized for audio and sending the Concero an excellent USB signal.  So much for the automatically assumed low jitter superiority of Asynchronous USB...  blink.gif

Async simply means that the USB device is now the master clock; in contrast to adaptive mode where the computer is the master clock, and the usb is slave clock. Doesn't guarantee anything on jitters tongue_smile.gif.

 

Fidelizer did nothing for me sadly; and JPLAY only results in a tiny boost in bass impact/definition. Mine is also a self-built over-specced PC. But I only installed Windows 8 + BF3/Dota2, and nothing else. Maybe that's why fidelizer never worked for me =p.

post #587 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Well, you could always use whatever player you want with Jplay... Jplay is now fully ready to be integrated in any player that supports ASIO playback, including Foobar or Jriver.

 

That way, Jriver/Foobar/whatever functions as a library manager and you only use Jplay's driver for actual playback... You can even apply DSP if you want (VST plugins, replaygain). These changes are from version 5.0.

 

That said, if you want to experience the biggest sonic improvements, you have to use Jplay Mini, at best in hibernate mode... You can playback using one computer, or a control PC along with dedicated audio PC.  Using two PCs, you still have a full accessibility to your control PC while having the audio PC in hibernate mode for the best SQ.

Thanks for the advice.  I'll have to explore it further.  Not really in a hurry to drop another $100+ dollars at the moment though for the full version.  I'm satisfied for now with the free improvement i'm getting.  smily_headphones1.gif

post #588 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

Async simply means that the USB device is now the master clock; in contrast to adaptive mode where the computer is the master clock, and the usb is slave clock. Doesn't guarantee anything on jitters tongue_smile.gif.

 

Fidelizer did nothing for me sadly; and JPLAY only results in a tiny boost in bass impact/definition. Mine is also a self-built over-specced PC. But I only installed Windows 8 + BF3/Dota2, and nothing else. Maybe that's why fidelizer never worked for me =p.

 

If you talk about JPLAY, you should specify... There are many ways how to run this software, especially now from version 5.0. I cannot believe you don't hear an improvement with JPlay Mini in hibernate mode. It's of course possible but very unlikely. :-)

post #589 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

Async simply means that the USB device is now the master clock; in contrast to adaptive mode where the computer is the master clock, and the usb is slave clock. Doesn't guarantee anything on jitters tongue_smile.gif.

 

Fidelizer did nothing for me sadly; and JPLAY only results in a tiny boost in bass impact/definition. Mine is also a self-built over-specced PC. But I only installed Windows 8 + BF3/Dota2, and nothing else. Maybe that's why fidelizer never worked for me =p.

I know, but Asynch marketing would have you believe that GIGO means garbage in/gold out biggrin.gif  I'm sure some of it could be the HD800 as well as they are hyper-resolving of even subtle changes.  I was just surprised to squeeze even a little more performance out of the little Concero.

post #590 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

If you talk about JPLAY, you should specify... There are many ways how to run this software, especially now from version 5.0. I cannot believe you don't hear an improvement with JPlay Mini in hibernate mode. It's of course possible but very unlikely. :-)

Both Mini mode, hibernation mode (I used a laptop with the desktop, instead of two PCs - no I didn't try the CAT5 vs CAT6 Lan cable argument) - and run as KS/ASIO from JRiver/Foobar.

 

Lots of strange stuff with PC playback. And to be honest I find the whole motion of "prioritize for audio" pretty bogus. Don't get me started on the "WAV sounds better than compressed Flac" and "files stored in SSD sounds better than in HDD".

 

My rig can run BF3 max on Caspian border 64p with 90fps+, let alone some puny media player bigsmile_face.gif.  I also did several tests where I run BF3 in background, and turn on Jriver and play some song - no degradation.

 

Yet Jplay gives a really small difference, that boggles my mind. Either the thing has its own built-in DSP/EQ, or WASAPI + Memory playback isn't bit perfect as we thought tongue_smile.gif


Edited by khaine1711 - 5/18/13 at 11:49am
post #591 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

Both Mini mode, hibernation mode (I used a laptop with the desktop, instead of two PCs - no I didn't try the CAT5 vs CAT6 Lan cable argument) - and run as KS/ASIO from JRiver/Foobar.

 

Lots of strange stuff with PC playback. And to be honest I find the whole motion of "prioritize for audio" pretty bogus. My rig can run BF3 max on Caspian border 64p with 90fps+, let alone some puny media player bigsmile_face.gif.  I also did several tests where I run BF3 in background, and turn on Jriver and play some song - no degradation.

 

Yet Jplay gives a really small difference, that boggles my mind. Either the thing has its own built-in DSP/EQ, or WASAPI + Memory playback isn't bit perfect as we thought tongue_smile.gif

 

CAT5 vs CAT6... Well, I understand that quality computer can make a difference but hearing differences among digital cables is something I haven't experienced so far. Let's focus on the software side of things here :-)

 

I would say that the better is your computer, the lower the difference will be... Highly optimised dedicated audio PC would most probably be doing well itself.

 

Jplay does not feature any DSP itself (Xxhighend does under a certain condition but this one does not). That said, I know what you mean - there are different playback engines which influence the way memory and CPU are used. As a result, I must agree with what you say - PC playback realy is a strange thing :-)

 

I would like to finalise saying that I hear a clear difference even using my low-fi speakers :-) I understand that it's not HUGE, definitely not... But people should realise that differences among amps and DACs are not either, at least not to my ears. Ultimately and objectively, it's all subtle, definitely, if we talk about pure SQ. If we take frequency response into account then yes, noticable differences among amps can be heard ,-)

post #592 of 1703
Thread Starter 

This type of thing is exactly why I love my Auraliti server. It leaves the configuration in the capable hands of Demian Martin (Constellation Audio, etc), and away from goofballs like me who will probably do more harm than good. 

 

When I use a laptop for testing, I deliberately run basic Foobar without any frills. Just to get a "real world" experience. 

post #593 of 1703

Here I was just using Foobar + WASAPI and thinking it was all good... a whole new world has opened up for me to explore...

 

beerchug.gif I love and hate this place. (Thanks JWahl! I downloaded fidelizer, but I'm at work so I can't try it right now...)

 

Project86. Will you be reviewing the Concero HD? Anytime soon?

post #594 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

Now download Jplay and run it using Jplay Mini player (and not Foobar or Jriver) in hibernate mode... Fidelizer is only for starters. ,-)

I tried jplay 5 on two computers and the experience was rather painful:
- didn't install on my desktop (error after reboot)
- crashed on my laptop after I played a track on jriver I could not access JPlay's control pannel again. Inconvenient when trying to set things up... Didn't notice any improvement anyway.
post #595 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post


I tried jplay 5 on two computers and the experience was rather painful:
- didn't install on my desktop (error after reboot)
- crashed on my laptop after I played a track on jriver I could not access JPlay's control pannel again. Inconvenient when trying to set things up... Didn't notice any improvement anyway.

 

Thank you for sharing... That said, you can always use the official board or e-mail Jplay team directly, they are incredibly helpful! No problems for me on three different computers, using Windows 7 64bit or Windows 8 64bit.

 

Btw, I like how people experience extreme differences among amps and DACs (or even digital cables!) and in the same time they hear zero difference among Foobar and all the better stuff like Amarra, Jplay, Xxhighend, Fidelizer etc. Interesting to be a part of this community... smily_headphones1.gif


Edited by RustA - 5/18/13 at 1:45pm
post #596 of 1703

Just got home... the first thing I did was to power up my rig and use the fidelizer, haha. I'm such a crazy audiophile. L3000.gif Sound improvements? Yes! from what I can tell. Huge? unclear... but the Concero does like it a lot... singing like an angel now, not that it wasn't before... I'll probably do more testing to see how big the difference is, but for now I'm happy with the improvement.

 

Thanks JWhal! beerchug.gif

post #597 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Just got home... the first thing I did was to power up my rig and use the fidelizer, haha. I'm such a crazy audiophile. L3000.gif Sound improvements? Yes! from what I can tell. Huge? unclear... but the Concero does like it a lot... singing like an angel now, not that it wasn't before... I'll probably do more testing to see how big the difference is, but for now I'm happy with the improvement.

 

Thanks JWhal! beerchug.gif

No problem.  Not bad at all, for free beerchug.gif

post #598 of 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Thank you for sharing... That said, you can always use the official board or e-mail Jplay team directly, they are incredibly helpful! No problems for me on three different computers, using Windows 7 64bit or Windows 8 64bit.

 

Btw, I like how people experience extreme differences among amps and DACs (or even digital cables!) and in the same time they hear zero difference among Foobar and all the better stuff like Amarra, Jplay, Xxhighend, Fidelizer etc. Interesting to be a part of this community... smily_headphones1.gif

 

On the same topic, I don't think Foobar + WASAPI is in anyway lacking. The only thing it fells a bit short is memory playback (which doesn't matter if you got a high spec PC anyway). Even though back when JRiver gains its popularity, there's lots of mumbo jumbo on how playing Flac files from memory achieves the best latency - I don't find any difference between JRiver WASAPI and Foo WASAPI =p.

 

About Fidelizer but if it works for everyone, I'm sure MSB/EA will recommend you to use that; or get a i7 3770 OC rig dedicated only to audio. I understood the reasoning of audio sharing the host process with DHCP other stuff - still with the computing power we have at the moment, how that is a problem is beyond me. We're dealing with a simple audio stream here, not quantum computing.

 

Digital cables depends on what you are talking about. USB cables are a hoax. Coaxial cables do have some science behind it (length/reflection...etc). TOSlink, I did waste 80 bucks for a "glass" cable to find it doesn't sound anyway different from my 5 bucks freebie =p. I think the whole CAT5 vs CAT6 is loads of crap too.

 

On the software side, hard to play with Amarra, you need to either hackintosh, or grab a mac mini. I wouldn't touch XXhighend with a ten foot pole, even if it sings like an angel (not) - the interface pretty much fries my brain. I did play with most players (windows only), and to be honest, only JPLAY sounds slightly different from the others - even its mini player sounds a weeee bit different from using Jplay with Foobar/jriver.

 

Now if they publish some researches/papers on how bit perfect players can sound different; they can have my money tongue_smile.gif


Edited by khaine1711 - 5/18/13 at 4:46pm
post #599 of 1703
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Here I was just using Foobar + WASAPI and thinking it was all good... a whole new world has opened up for me to explore...

beerchug.gif  I love and hate this place. (Thanks JWahl! I downloaded fidelizer, but I'm at work so I can't try it right now...)

Project86. Will you be reviewing the Concero HD? Anytime soon?

Maybe. I think Resonessence would rather have me check out the Concero HP since it appeals more to the headphone user (when used on its own). Might do that for InnerFidelity if it ends up being a worthwhile product - which I suspect it will.
post #600 of 1703

Well good news,

 

I should be receiving the Concero with the latest software update as soon as Tuesday. If anyone is curious about this update, here ya go http://resonessencelabs.com/software-updates-for-concero/

 

On another note, I will give the Concero a good week or two with the X-Sabre to compare on both my computer and my Marantz CD5003 via Coax.

 

Cheers all

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