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post #391 of 1874

People tend to gush about good stuff...It's really good for the price...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurus View Post


Finally, a more balanced viewpoint. This is the first non gushing post on the Concero.

 

Also relevant. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkfxlFZ3oTw

post #392 of 1874
Thread Starter 

I'd say most of us Concero owners are excited about it because A) it's relatively affordable, B) it's really small, and C) it accomplishes so much in terms of SQ while skipping many of the "audiophile prerequisites" such as a massive PSU and extensive analog section. That's noteworthy.

 

It's not the best DAC in the world and its sound, like any other product, won't be the best for everyone. So let's not overdo it. But it is a great little DAC. 

post #393 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnspbesq View Post

 

 

Have you spent any time with either unit, or are you just pontificating.

Fortunately, I am not a Catholic (MPOV) and I was making a observation (MPOV) on other people's opinion of the Concero.  So hopefully that answers your question whether I am just pontificating.

post #394 of 1874

 

 

Let's all play nice and get back to talking about music, isn't that what we're all here for?

post #395 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurus View Post

Fortunately, I am not a Catholic (MPOV) and I was making a observation (MPOV) on other people's opinion of the Concero.  So hopefully that answers your question whether I am just pontificating.


Oh, it does.  It does indeed.

 

P.S. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pontificate

post #396 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by EraserXIV View Post





Let's all play nice and get back to talking about music, isn't that what we're all here for?

^
post #397 of 1874
I have been experimenting with using the Concero to feed my old Theta Chroma 396. I think this combo sounds better than using the Concero as the Dac. The Theta is getting a good clean signal and is sounding good. More upper mid detail than Concero alone and more natural. I've been through the honeymoon period smily_headphones1.gif I do hear areas where the Concero is better. The Theta is 17? Yrs old. Lol. You can't upsample either. There is something in the presentation the Concero as Dac, it wasn't sitting right with my ears. Feeding though, is great.
post #398 of 1874
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcullinan View Post

I have been experimenting with using the Concero to feed my old Theta Chroma 396. I think this combo sounds better than using the Concero as the Dac. The Theta is getting a good clean signal and is sounding good. More upper mid detail than Concero alone and more natural. I've been through the honeymoon period smily_headphones1.gif I do hear areas where the Concero is better. The Theta is 17? Yrs old. Lol. You can't upsample either. There is something in the presentation the Concero as Dac, it wasn't sitting right with my ears. Feeding though, is great.

 

Ah, the classic sound of an 18-bit ladder DAC. I certainly understand the appeal. That unit (and most of the era) doesn't have much going on in the way of jitter reduction, which is why it was commonly paired with the Genesis Digital Lens or some other such "jitter-buster". But the Concero is vastly superior to those, and should be delivering the cleanest signal your Theta has ever seen. No wonder it sounds so nice. 

post #399 of 1874
Yeah it sounds totally different, especially the top end with the Concero. I love my Eximus Dac which is Sigma Delta upsampling. Now I don't really have the experience since I've only hear 2 Sabre Dacs, but I'm under the impression I won't like any Dacs with the chip. Is there one that is meaty, natural, organic, maybe a tad dark. Or instead of dark, laid back. That would float my boat. My second system is in chaos. Just not digging the sound. Though. Theta is classic what I'm used to in a way.
post #400 of 1874
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcullinan View Post

Yeah it sounds totally different, especially the top end with the Concero. I love my Eximus Dac which is Sigma Delta upsampling. Now I don't really have the experience since I've only hear 2 Sabre Dacs, but I'm under the impression I won't like any Dacs with the chip. Is there one that is meaty, natural, organic, maybe a tad dark. Or instead of dark, laid back. That would float my boat. My second system is in chaos. Just not digging the sound. Though. Theta is classic what I'm used to in a way.

 

The Yulong Sabre D18 might fit the bill - not exactly rolled off or super dark, but definitely leaning in that direction as compared to Concero or other Sabre based DACs I've heard. It's interesting because the XLR outputs have that sound while the RCA outs are more of the traditional "lit up" sound I've come to expect. 

 

I'd be careful with generalizations though - there is so much to a DAC that determines the sound, from power supply to analog stages to jitter reduction methods, that the actual DAC chip itself isn't necessarily a major contributor to the sound. It really depends. 

post #401 of 1874

Yeah... thats why I mentioned Ive only heard 2 so trying not to generalize. Its interesting though that the overwhelming majority of DAC makers are using the Sabre chip. 

So if its not the chip, then is the sound signature of the times? When you say "lit up quality" 

And I like treble ;) Maybe its that leading edge, the attack. Im sure you could get extension without being aggressive.

Ill try moving my speakers around, could be bad reflections.

Or therapy ::))))

lol

post #402 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

The Yulong Sabre D18 might fit the bill - not exactly rolled off or super dark, but definitely leaning in that direction 

 

From what I have found in terms of measured performance the D18 measures utterly flat apart from about 0.1db drop at 20K. Not leaning in any direction.

post #403 of 1874
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcullinan View Post

Yeah... thats why I mentioned Ive only heard 2 so trying not to generalize. Its interesting though that the overwhelming majority of DAC makers are using the Sabre chip. 

So if its not the chip, then is the sound signature of the times? When you say "lit up quality" 

And I like treble ;) Maybe its that leading edge, the attack. Im sure you could get extension without being aggressive.

Ill try moving my speakers around, could be bad reflections.

Or therapy ::))))

lol

 

I think it has to do with the level of detail retrieval that seems inherent in all of the Sabre DACs. I think that sort of thing can come across as sounding "bright" even when that isn't really the case. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

 

From what I have found in terms of measured performance the D18 measures utterly flat apart from about 0.1db drop at 20K. Not leaning in any direction.

 

I'm aware of your opinion that all reasonably designed DACs sound the same. I respect your posts and have no wish to debate the matter. 

post #404 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

I'm aware of your opinion that all reasonably designed DACs sound the same. I respect your posts and have no wish to debate the matter. 

 

 

That is not what I am saying at all. Please do not try to misrepresent my post.

 

You opined thus:

 

 

Quote:
The Yulong Sabre D18 might fit the bill - not exactly rolled off or super dark, but definitely leaning in that direction 

 

I merely stated that the measurements I have seen do not indicate any "leaning". That is all.

 

 

Bye

post #405 of 1874
Thread Starter 

I apologize if I've misrepresented your opinion on the matter. I've read any number of your posts where you seem to have that opinion. An example is HERE where you discuss the amp section of the Benchmark DAC-1: "The headphone amp does appear empirically to be utterly neutral, completely flat and thus neither bright nor dark - in fact neutral is the term that springs to mind, another phrase that springs to mind is "highly accurate" or "high fidelity" - that some people find it to have some kind of anthropomorphic character is I feel an issue with them and not the item itself which seems by all rational criteria to be as close to flawless as makes no difference given our relatively poor human discrimination abilities"

 

Granted, you are referring to an amp rather than a DAC, but I'd think the same logic would apply. If this is not really your position then I apologize for characterizing you in such a fashion. 

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