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post #271 of 1874

If anyone is interested.  I got my HD-800 today and have been listening for a bit now and really like it.  The Concero certainly does the HD-800 justice, especially with the IIR filter engaged.  The filter differences are slightly more noticeable with the HD-800 than my other headphones.  Of course, this is through my amp, and personal tastes, so YMMV.  I'm sure there is greater performance that can be had with the HD-800 but the Concero is certainly not a noticeably weak link and I have no particular itch to upgrade right now.

 

And also, I am using a slight bit of EQ to tame the sibilance with the HD-800 but no more than 2db and within JRiver the DSP is done in 64bit floating point so it shouldn't affect the fidelity much if any at all, at least not that I can tell.

post #272 of 1874

What was your previous DAC?

post #273 of 1874

Thanks, good to know it works with the iPad.

 

Are the digital and RCA outputs activated at the same time?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

John Darko just covered the Concero in the new ToneAudio. Towards the end, he mentions using Concero with an iPad, CCK, and the iFi iUSBPower. So that definitely works, but I don't believe it works on its own with no external power. 

post #274 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

What was your previous DAC?

 

Most recently and with my current amp I was using the Schiit Modi, but before that I've owned in reverse order: Audio-GD SA-1, Wadia 121, Old Audio-GD NFB-1ES with Hiface EVO, and Musical Fidelity VDAC.
post #275 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

 

Most recently and with my current amp I was using the Schiit Modi, but before that I've owned in reverse order: Audio-GD SA-1, Wadia 121, Old Audio-GD NFB-1ES with Hiface EVO, and Musical Fidelity VDAC.

 

Thanks. I know audio memory isn't always the most reliable, but how does the Concero stack up to what you remember about the Wadia and others.
post #276 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

 

Thanks. I know audio memory isn't always the most reliable, but how does the Concero stack up to what you remember about the Wadia and others.

 

x2, and especially the SA-1. I've always wanted to try out one of those Audio-GD PCM1074 DACs
post #277 of 1874

It's especially difficult to compare since I've had different amps and phones for the various DACs but it's probably most similar sound wise to the Wadia since they both use proprietary upsampling algorithms, but the Concero is more user friendly and I've had no functional issues like I did with the Wadia.

 

Both Audio-GD units were good for the money, the SA-1 being much more laid back sounding, more ease of sound and "analog" sounding. The Concero is an excellent value for the dollar but I think most of it's strength is in the clocking and upsample filtering. I usually don't prefer upsampling but I feel it's done right in the Concero. I think it would be even better feeding a dedicated traditional DAC as a DDC. On paper, it's essentially a high quality DDC feeding a "DAC on chip"

 

My goal is to eventually have the Concero feeding something like an NFB-1, Matrix X-Sabre, Anedio D1, Gungnir, etc.  The Gungnir could be an interesting combo just because it doesn't use any upsampling already and the USB input doesn't seem particularly special from what I've read.  I just wish the Concero had a BNC port like the Audiophilleo for true 75ohm coupling.  Shouldn't make a huge difference though.


Edited by JWahl - 3/6/13 at 6:50pm
post #278 of 1874
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekingduck View Post

Thanks, good to know it works with the iPad.

 

Are the digital and RCA outputs activated at the same time?

 

 

If I recall correctly, the coaxial input automatically takes priority over the USB.

post #279 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

It's especially difficult to compare since I've had different amps and phones for the various DACs but it's probably most similar sound wise to the Wadia since they both use proprietary upsampling algorithms, but the Concero is more user friendly and I've had no functional issues like I did with the Wadia.

Both Audio-GD units were good for the money, the SA-1 being much more laid back sounding, more ease of sound and "analog" sounding. The Concero is an excellent value for the dollar but I think most of it's strength is in the clocking and upsample filtering. I usually don't prefer upsampling but I feel it's done right in the Concero. I think it would be even better feeding a dedicated traditional DAC as a DDC. On paper, it's essentially a high quality DDC feeding a "DAC on chip"

My goal is to eventually have the Concero feeding something like an NFB-1, Matrix X-Sabre, Anedio D1, Gungnir, etc.  The Gungnir could be an interesting combo just because it doesn't use any upsampling already and the USB input doesn't seem particularly special from what I've read.  I just wish the Concero had a BNC port like the Audiophilleo for true 75ohm coupling.  Shouldn't make a huge difference though.

Be careful with terms. Upsampling has become a term associated with DACs that did asynchronous sample rate conversion as an earlier and less effective means of reducing jitter than asynchronous USB input.

But almost all DACs on the market, including all those you've named, do sample rate conversion/interpolation before the actual D/A conversion (decimation) to avoid producing audible distortion in the decimation step. The design of the filters used in the interpolation and decimation play a very large role in the sound of each DAC (or software player, if you use the player's sample rate conversion/interpolation).
post #280 of 1874

Sorry I wasn't clear. Actually I was asking if the Concero outputs analog AND SPDIF signals simultaneously when functioning as a USB DAC. I just checked the user manual and the answer is yes :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

If I recall correctly, the coaxial input automatically takes priority over the USB.

post #281 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

 

Most recently and with my current amp I was using the Schiit Modi, but before that I've owned in reverse order: Audio-GD SA-1, Wadia 121, Old Audio-GD NFB-1ES with Hiface EVO, and Musical Fidelity VDAC.

Schiit Modi work good? You see the difference without him and with him? I think there may not be as broad and clear bass scene

post #282 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by judmarc View Post


Be careful with terms. Upsampling has become a term associated with DACs that did asynchronous sample rate conversion as an earlier and less effective means of reducing jitter than asynchronous USB input.

But almost all DACs on the market, including all those you've named, do sample rate conversion/interpolation before the actual D/A conversion (decimation) to avoid producing audible distortion in the decimation step. The design of the filters used in the interpolation and decimation play a very large role in the sound of each DAC (or software player, if you use the player's sample rate conversion/interpolation).

 

Yes, I suppose I should clarify.  What I should have said is that when I've tried software upsampling like ones in JRiver and Foobar, I've always preferred it without.  With the Concero however, I prefer the upsampling filters engaged, though they only work with 44.1k and 48k source material.  They are 4x upsampling for the given base frequency.  I know that every Sigma-Delta DAC has to use some type of filtering even at to filter out digital noise artifacts of the conversion process, but different manufacturers approach this differently.  

 

And I also realize that some DACs, like the Musical Fidelity V-DAC always upsample, in the V-DACs case to 192khz for every sample rate.  I won't pretend that I'm an expert in this though, I just know that I prefer the Resonessence filters to most I've heard, though I think Wadia's upsampling/filtering scheme is pretty decent too and shares a similar natural quality.  And yes, I'm beginning to think a big chunk of the sound quality is in fact in the clocking and filters, not to say that good output stages and power supplies don't help of course.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberzone View Post

Schiit Modi work good? You see the difference without him and with him? I think there may not be as broad and clear bass scene

 

The Modi is good for it's $99 price point but I feel the Concero is noticeably better sounding, less fatiguing, more natural, spacious, etc.  Which is impressive since they're both rather simple USB powered DACs.

post #283 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

My goal is to eventually have the Concero feeding something like an NFB-1, Matrix X-Sabre, Anedio D1, Gungnir, etc.  The Gungnir could be an interesting combo just because it doesn't use any upsampling already and the USB input doesn't seem particularly special from what I've read.  I just wish the Concero had a BNC port like the Audiophilleo for true 75ohm coupling.  Shouldn't make a huge difference though.

 

Some of those DACs are pretty close to the Concero in price. Do you think the NFB-1 would be a better buy?

post #284 of 1874

Do we have to buy the Concer + remote pack to effectively control the unit or any Apple remote will do?

 

I read there is no Sync needed. Does it mean that any command on the remote will automatically change the Concero settings? confused.gif

 

Edit: seems like any remote will do. They are cheaper on Amazon than bundled with the Concero.

 

Order placed!


Edited by Clemmaster - 3/8/13 at 6:55am
post #285 of 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post

Do we have to buy the Concer + remote pack to effectively control the unit or any Apple remote will do?

 

I read there is no Sync needed. Does it mean that any command on the remote will automatically change the Concero settings? confused.gif

 

Edit: seems like any remote will do. They are cheaper on Amazon than bundled with the Concero.

 

Order placed!

Congratulations! Fits any Apple Remote, my concero will be here in a week. In box usb cable, and a beautiful cover which is also nice.

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