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Resonessence Labs Concero discussion/review thead - Page 115

post #1711 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post  Can you expand on this?  Is it related to SNR?

 

When you amplify an opamp to greater levels, the opamp noise also gets amplified. A higher noise floor equals lower SNR. Additionally, the performance of the opamp differs at different voltage outputs. It's this delicate dance of maximizing performance and minimizing penalties for each application that earns audio designers their keep.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post  Also why is the dedicated DAC output impedance so high?  Is line-out typically high impedance?  Why is that?

 

Yes, usually the line output of a DAC has high output impedance. I imagine that the main reason is that it doesn't have to be low, so designers won't optimize the circuit for low OI, but rather current stability. Additionally, high output impedance means that the RCA cable's resistive qualities are negligible. Amps high input impedance, so the cable's contribution is basically nothing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post  Also I'm curious what the affects of the volume control.  Is it just a pot that varies the gain?

 

No. Resonessence devices use digital volume control. The digital signal is mathematically processed for lower output through a 32-bit control path that avoids losing too much resolution. A finely designed analog volume control is a better solution, but that kind of analog control would probably cost $$$ for the volume control portion alone. Please watch this video:

 

 

post #1712 of 2247

Anybody here also own the DX90 or the DX100 which also uses 9018 chip?  Let me know what you think the differences are.  Thanks.  I'm interested in natural tonality, clarity, details, and accuracy.

 

Nice video T!!! Very helpful.  :etysmile:


Edited by SilverEars - 4/27/14 at 12:49pm
post #1713 of 2247

Hi guys! Just picked up this tasty little DAC, for my Office system. I've always wanted to try it; and so far...I'm pretty impressed, for the price point.

 

But I have a question, and I'm not getting much help...over at Computer Audiophile. There's a nice following of this DAC here...so I'm sure you guys can help.

 

Being as the DAC runs on USB power...and I'm using s/pdif (for now anyway); just to get 'er up and running...I'm using the power port for my phone charger. But this unit seems like the perfect candidate...for some battery power!

 

I am just getting my feet wet, with that kind of stuff...with regard to my latest C.A.P.S. build; so...any suggestions, as to what should work? I guess...with my limited knowledge...I'm thinking something like this?

 

http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7902-YA

 

But what are the differences, between the 3 models (in other words...how does the amperage rating, effect things as far as this use)?

 

http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7903S-BA

 

http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7904S-WA

 

Thanks for any and all help.

post #1714 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post  Anybody here also own the DX90 or the DX100 which also uses 9018 chip?

 

There are a lot of differences. The DX90 uses (2x) ES9018K2M (a two-channel chip, per stereo channel in dual mono), while the DX100 uses (1x) ES9018A (an eight-channel chip, four per stereo channel). The two use completely different I/V conversion stages and amplification stages.

post #1715 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
 

Hi guys! Just picked up this tasty little DAC, for my Office system. I've always wanted to try it; and so far...I'm pretty impressed, for the price point.

 

But I have a question, and I'm not getting much help...over at Computer Audiophile. There's a nice following of this DAC here...so I'm sure you guys can help.

 

Being as the DAC runs on USB power...and I'm using s/pdif (for now anyway); just to get 'er up and running...I'm using the power port for my phone charger. But this unit seems like the perfect candidate...for some battery power!

 

I am just getting my feet wet, with that kind of stuff...with regard to my latest C.A.P.S. build; so...any suggestions, as to what should work? I guess...with my limited knowledge...I'm thinking something like this?

 

http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7902-YA

 

But what are the differences, between the 3 models (in other words...how does the amperage rating, effect things as far as this use)?

 

http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7903S-BA

 

http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7904S-WA

 

Thanks for any and all help.

This very thing was mentioned earlier in the thread by another member.  I'm doing this same thing with this battery:

 

http://www.amazon.com/15000mAh-Portable-Ultra-High-External-Motorola/dp/B00D5T3QK4

 

Here is a photo posted earlier in the thread of that setup:

 

 

I was using the same cheap USB split cable but I'm currently testing some loaners from iFi audio including their Gemini cable and iPurifier.  Other members have said that additional clean power doesn't make much difference with the Concero because the internal regulation is so good.  I'll likely soon be trading my Anedio D1 for the Concero HP so I'll give it a try in a week or so when I get it.  

post #1716 of 2247

^^ Thanks. I meant to include...in my OP...sorry if it's been asked and answered; but I didn't have time, to skim all 115 pages...lol.

 

Any thoughts, about the different models; in other words, what more amperage gets you...using it in this way?

 

Thanks

post #1717 of 2247

so i tried to play some dsd trought spdif yesterday and they don t work

only trough usb

i set jriver dsd over DOP

any chance to a good compromise of playing dsd with concero in converter mode?

post #1718 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
 

^^ Thanks. I meant to include...in my OP...sorry if it's been asked and answered; but I didn't have time, to skim all 115 pages...lol.

 

Any thoughts, about the different models; in other words, what more amperage gets you...using it in this way?

 

Thanks

 

A laptop's USB 2.0 port can meet spec by providing only 500 mA of current at 5VDC, so the Concero would be more than satisfied with any of the Anker battery packs you've referenced, given that the weakest is rated at 2000mA, continuous.  To me, the bigger issue is giving yourself enough capacity.  The small one won't last long at driving the Concero between charging, so I would recommend this one, as a minimum capacity:  http://www.ianker.com/product/79AN7903S-BA

 

The larger Anker battery could be considered overkill, but believe me, it gets old having to recharge the battery, and they will last a lot longer if you shallow-cycle them, rather than deep-cycling them between charges. In any case, for desktop use, I recommend keeping the battery pack connected to its charger with an AC outlet timer, like this one, that comes on every night to top off the battery when you're not using it, but off during the day: http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-TN311-Heavy-Grounded-Timer/dp/B005MMSTNG

 

Regarding the "need" for using a battery pack in the first place: I believe the Concero has about the best power management/filtering of any USB-powered audio device that I've spent any time with. In my home, I've never actually heard any evidence of EMI or RFI coming in from the mains or from other appliances in our home, but our community does suffer some pretty severe brown outs (120V service dropping as low as 100V, at times - especially on summer afternoons, when everyone's running their air conditioners in the Texas heat.)  I've also got a laptop (one of two) that itself generates enough noise at its USB ports, that I've been unable to use it with some other USB-powered ESS9023 DACs, like the JDS Labs Objective DAC - which, admittedly, can't compete with the Concero in terms of built-in power filtering.  But the better of my two laptops, can itself manifest a power-related audible problem under certain situations (detailed earlier in this thread), that even the mighty Concero can't handle.  

 

So...  YMMV (depending on how clean your incoming power is, how noisy your household loads are, how noisy your laptop or PC is, how low a noise floor you're capable of achieving with other components in the chain, how transparent your headphones are, how clean your recordings are, etc.). But I know one thing for sure:  It's a lot easier to make a silk purse out of silk, than it is to make it out of a pig's ear - so why not give the Concero really clean power to begin with?  

 

To me, "noise" is insidiously difficult to detect. You can be suffering its consequences with no awareness.  As an analogy, when you look at a photograph that has insufficient Depth of Field (whether intentional on the part of the photographer, or not), it's very easy to distinguish those areas of the image that are "in focus" from those areas that are "not in focus" because you can see good areas and bad, simultaneously, right there in that one print.  But the noise floor in audio is akin to diffraction in a photograph - the degradation of image quality is not only subtle, but also uniform across the entire image and, unless you have a second print (with less diffraction) lying right alongside the first print, it's next to impossible to even have an awareness that your resolution is compromised uniformly by noise.

 

I'm more content to let the Concero make its silk purse using silk.

 

Mike

post #1719 of 2247

WoW Mike; Bravo :beerchug:

 

That's exactly the kind of post, I was hoping for. I wondered about "longevity" as well; i.e. as you addressed...would a smaller battery unit work, but need charging more/too frequently.

 

I also agree, noise can be very hard to detect; and furthermore...why not start with the "silk", as you say. I mean...we're talking $50, for that peace of mind.

 

2 other questions...if I might: as I mention in my OP; I'm just using my Samsung Galaxy S4 wall-wart-to-usb for power right now. I've noticed a few drop-outs, with my SBT running s/pdif into the Concero. Think that could be power related? Never heard the SBT drop-out previously.

 

Two...someone on CA, finally chimed in; and suggested an iFi usb power. While I've been intrigued by that unit...to use with a pc player; my first response to him seem to be...that's still on the grid (plus we're talking $200 vs. $50). But...reading iFi lit; they claim "quieter than battery".

 

Thoughts? Again...thanks so much. I agree...this is a kick-ass, little DAC! (SBT> Concero> Cayin M-6> KEF LS-50s)


Edited by CDLehner - 4/29/14 at 12:19pm
post #1720 of 2247

LS-50s?   I'm done helping you!  

 

Heee-heee!  Those things have been on my wish list for a long time!  Congratulations!

 

OK, I'm not done helping you.   :D

 

Yeah, those "drop outs" you're experiencing are most likely due to insufficient current from that wall-wart power supply (even if the voltage is a steady 5V.)

 

I've never tested the iFi USB, but I believe it's actually possible that it's quieter than some batteries. I think it would be hard to predict whether it would outperform any given battery without careful testing.  I can tell you that the Ankers and XP8000s have a good track record for NOT being a source of noise with a lot of cheap-o-files who are using them with things like portable headphone amps, USB-powered DACs, and 12V DC audio gear.  They're silent - and portable - and less expensive than the iFi USB.

 

Mike

post #1721 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

LS-50s?   I'm done helping you!  

 

Heee-heee!  Those things have been on my wish list for a long time!  Congratulations!

 

Thanks; and that's just the Office rig mate! :p

post #1722 of 2247

You're so cruel!

 

:beerchug:

post #1723 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

You're so cruel!

 

:beerchug:

Oh c'mon; at the very least...you own the $600 Concero. Don't tell me you can't swing $1500 speakers, lol. :p

 

Well...I'm sooooo impressed with the Concero; I'm wondering...do I dump my Mytek, for an HD??? 


Edited by CDLehner - 4/29/14 at 5:44pm
post #1724 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
 

Oh c'mon; at the very least...you own the $600 Concero. Don't tell me you can't swing $1500 speakers, lol. :p

 

So...I'm sooooo impressed with the Concero; I'm wondering...do I dump my Mytek, for an HD??? 

Supposedly, the Matrix X-Sabre is similar sounding to the Concero, and retains balanced outputs if you need them.  Also, similar style of enclosure build.

post #1725 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

WoW Mike; Bravo :beerchug:

 

That's exactly the kind of post, I was hoping for. I wondered about "longevity" as well; i.e. as you addressed...would a smaller battery unit work, but need charging more/too frequently.

 

I also agree, noise can be very hard to detect; and furthermore...why not start with the "silk", as you say. I mean...we're talking $50, for that peace of mind.

 

2 other questions...if I might: as I mention in my OP; I'm just using my Samsung Galaxy S4 wall-wart-to-usb for power right now. I've noticed a few drop-outs, with my SBT running s/pdif into the Concero. Think that could be power related? Never heard the SBT drop-out previously.

 

Two...someone on CA, finally chimed in; and suggested an iFi usb power. While I've been intrigued by that unit...to use with a pc player; my first response to him seem to be...that's still on the grid (plus we're talking $200 vs. $50). But...reading iFi lit; they claim "quieter than battery".

 

Thoughts? Again...thanks so much. I agree...this is a kick-ass, little DAC! (SBT> Concero> Cayin M-6> KEF LS-50s)

 

The Concero and KEF LS50s are a good pairing. I drive my Concero of my Macbook Pro and don't feel it needs a battery setup, but with the SBT I think it would a great addition. The LS50s are very detailed speakers and demand a good source. Mine have made me neglect my headphone setup lately as they sound fantastic! A valve amp might add a bit of extra warmth to the LS50s which could be very welcome. Enjoy!


Edited by daerron - 4/30/14 at 12:53am
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