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Resonessence Labs Concero discussion/review thead - Page 102

post #1516 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by bixby View Post
 

Nobody is saying your hearing is defective and you are certainly allowed to share your opinion.

 

I for one have not spent more than the cost of a interconnect on my USB cable.  But when you get to hear several USB cables and hear changes, then as with analog cables you can be a believer or not.  I am :)  Unfortunately I cannot hear for you and am unable to demonstrate :)  

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I cannot hear the difference between analog interconnects either. I cannot call you wrong because, again, I can't hear what you hear.

 

I will work my way through that article in the next little while (critical reading is tough for me), either way, I'm not sure I can offer any VALID opinion on that article.

 

edit: i'm going to make 2 initial points on that graph. 1) that article only applies to normal USB transfer, not sure if any of it applies to USB async  2) part of the reason Concero can compete with other DACs that are self-powered is because how the Concero filters the USB signal.

 

edit2: I've worked my way through the article.

1) the article was written in 2000, I wonder how many of those problems are still unresolved.

2) the author seems to favor firewire over USB (easier jitter management)

3) afaik the USB async was specifically design to combat those problems mention in the article.

 

*great site though, thanks for the link

 

edit3: did you even read the article, base on my reading of the material related to the graph, it basically said, if you screw up a whole bunch of things, that's what happens...

 

-----

I am quite familiar with those videos. I discovered R-Labs after being introduced to those vids  last year. I've watch those vids several times over and I was quite familiar with them. Nothing there indicates a cable makes any difference.

 

edit: I'm not comfortable with ad hominem attacks in a discussion


Edited by BoxerOrBag - 12/31/13 at 5:00am
post #1517 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by bixby View Post
 

Nobody is saying your hearing is defective and you are certainly allowed to share your opinion.

 

I for one have not spent more than the cost of a interconnect on my USB cable.  But when you get to hear several USB cables and hear changes, then as with analog cables you can be a believer or not.  I am :)  Unfortunately I cannot hear for you and am unable to demonstrate :)  

 

Dang, could have been lost of cash there I suppose.

 

One thing we seem to be learning as time goes by in the digital realm is things are just not as easy as we think nor as easy as they seem.

 

The guys who design USB have a host of issues they must overcome.  Not the least of which can be shown by there data on what can happen to a signal:

 

Pretty interesting stuff in this short article:

 

http://electronicdesign.com/boards/480-mbitss-signal-integrity-becomes-issue-usb-20-designs

 

And since this is a Resonessence thread, be sure to take and hour or two for some interesting commentary about digital from the guys who make the dac chip.  Lots of unknowns they ran into that affected sound.

 

Mr. Mallinson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CkyrDIGzOE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYjHKv2_OqQ

 

Ok, done with my opinion :)

Interesting.  Graph is similar to one on the Oyaide USB page which I'm a big fan of.  Especially because they can be had for much less than typical "Audiophile" USB cables

 

http://www.neo-w.com/catalog/2010/06/d-usb_en.html

http://www.amazon.com/Oyaide-NEO-Class-Cable-Orange/dp/B003TNFCQW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_4

 

But yes, common sense dictates that the best cable is less or no cable, if your setup can accommodate it from a convenience viewpoint.  Unfortunately the direct connector isn't realistic for me with a desktop.

post #1518 of 2248

It is often true that once the topic of cables comes up in any kind of AV thread whatsoever, the rest of the discussion sinks like the Titanic.

Cables can improve the sound, but it nearly always comes in the form of a tradeoff. Like more crystalline highs at the expense of slightly muffled bass. Or an improvement in "airiness" at the expense of imaging. Generally I don't upgrade cables anymore. Just gets too OCD and expensive. Then again, my system is only about $3k in total. Had I a $10k-$50k-$100k rig? OCD warranted full-on! :p

 

*ahem* so anyway... filter mode saved between power cycles? Yes please! 

post #1519 of 2248

Kind of dumb question -- Is there anything wrong with just pulling out the USB plug once I close Foobar? I don't see an eject option anywhere in my USB devices.

post #1520 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 

Kind of dumb question -- Is there anything wrong with just pulling out the USB plug once I close Foobar? I don't see an eject option anywhere in my USB devices.

No. You can unplug it at anytime. 

post #1521 of 2248

That's what I've been doing, but I just want to baby this thing. Also, I've got an Anker battery and a Y-splitter coming in. Woohoo battery power! I'll report back once I give it a listen. 

post #1522 of 2248

Anyone know if the Concero HD (not HP) and Concero use the 32-bit volume control feature of the Sabre DAC, or does it relegate volume control processing to the source computer?

 

EDIT: Concero HD DOES as of 2.5 but not earlier, according to the changelog on the website and the Twitter. Not sure about the regular Concero, but I'm fairly certain the ES9023 does not include a 32-bit volume control.

 

So volume can be digitally attenuated from the computer on at least either the HD and HP with very little reduction in SNR or quality. :beerchug: 


Edited by tninety - 12/31/13 at 11:00pm
post #1523 of 2248

A while ago, we were discussing WASAPI and default device settings. Specifically -- why the Concero should not be set as the default device if you use WASAPI. I stumbled across the answer in this post (thanks, devhen): http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/2055#post_10124178 . If the Concero is set as the default device, then system sounds and other crap that's not your music will be added to the audio stream, defeating the purpose of WASAPI. 

post #1524 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 

A while ago, we were discussing WASAPI and default device settings. Specifically -- why the Concero should not be set as the default device if you use WASAPI. I stumbled across the answer in this post (thanks, devhen): http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/2055#post_10124178 . If the Concero is set as the default device, then system sounds and other crap that's not your music will be added to the audio stream, defeating the purpose of WASAPI. 


Ah! Thanks for the illumination! Learn something new everyday on Head-Fi.

post #1525 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post

A while ago, we were discussing WASAPI and default device settings. Specifically -- why the Concero should not be set as the default device if you use WASAPI. I stumbled across the answer in this post (thanks, devhen): http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/2055#post_10124178 . If the Concero is set as the default device, then system sounds and other crap that's not your music will be added to the audio stream, defeating the purpose of WASAPI. 


 



your dac as default device+foobar+wasapi exclusive mode+pc sound muted - results to sound only from foobar - I like that
Edited by i019791 - 1/3/14 at 4:06am
post #1526 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post


Thanks for the recommendation, Pete!

No worries Mike, and sorry for missing your earlier post until now!
post #1527 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by i019791 View Post

your dac as default device+foobar+wasapi exclusive mode+pc sound muted - results to sound only from foobar - I like that


IDK if that would work -- does a system sound at zero volume still interrupt the foobar audio stream? Not sure. Seems convoluted to make the DAC the default device, then try to compensate by muting, when you could just not make it the default device... What is the point when you don't want to hear system sounds either way?

post #1528 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by manbear View Post
 


IDK if that would work -- does a system sound at zero volume still interrupt the foobar audio stream? Not sure. Seems convoluted to make the DAC the default device, then try to compensate by muting, when you could just not make it the default device... What is the point when you don't want to hear system sounds either way?

It is easy to check whether it works.

You need the pc muted in any case when listening to foobar, otherwise any site sound when surfing can be disturbing.

With the dac as default device, switching from foobar to (say) youtube requires only unmuting the pc (one button push in my laptop). With the pc soundcard as default device I would need the additional step of setting the dac as default device.

If you say it is not a big deal, I will agree.


Edited by i019791 - 1/3/14 at 2:14pm
post #1529 of 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

 

I decided to order this PSU - just to get this cable that's included, but I'm sure I'll find good uses for PSU itself, too. :p

My earlier post regarding the TeraDak 5V PSU (Click to show)

 

 

They should really consider selling this cable alone.  At the moment, I'm only able to achieve this using my Scotch tape trick with a typical USB Y-cable:

 

 

The only other ready-to-use cables that segregate data from power are very expensive, like these:

 

The KingRex uArt Y USB Cable:  http://www.moon-audio.com/kingrex-uart-y-usb-cable.html

 

And the even more expensive KingRex uCraft Y USB Cable:  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/kingrex12/1.html

 

Thanks for the recommendation, Pete!

 

 

 

The TeraDak PSU arrived yesterday.  What a steal!   I can't honesty hear improvement using it to power the Concero vs. using my LiPo battery, but I can't hear any detriments, either.

 

Oddly, it doesn't include an AC power cord.  Oh well... I have plenty of those about.

 

Thanks again Pete.  It's great value.

 

Mike

 

post #1530 of 2248

What cord comes with it?  The link just brought me to the bottom of this thread.

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