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post #1186 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

Concero HD review is now posted HERE. Love this thing!

ahh that explains why Resonessence is the master of the sabre, they used to make the damn things.
post #1187 of 1808

Although the two units are very different from each other in terms of functionality, I managed to directly compare the CEntrance HiFi-M8 with the Concero HP, as they're the two things I have on hand at the moment.

 

The conclusion? I like the HP better. It provides a more sophisticated and refined sound, while being just as detailed. Detail levels on the two units are on par with each other, the main difference being that the HP makes even subtle details feel "macro" and inviting to listen to. The M8 seems to present detail more matter of factly, leading to some elements being slightly distracting. Dynamically, the Concero HP is livelier, with a better sense of "sound density". Vocals feel significantly fuller, instruments feel more three dimensional and project deeper within the soundstage. The M8's thinner, matter-of-fact presentation, and greater driving power makes instrumental separation feel a little better, but I don't feel I'm missing out on much with the HP. In my view, the Concero HP takes the cake. Its background levels are blacker and the sound just feels more mature. Of course, the M8 sounds great and it's ultra versatile, far beyond basically any portable rig around, but I really don't need all that functionality, so I'll keep the Concero HP, thank you very much.

post #1188 of 1808
post #1189 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post
 

Concero HD review is now posted HERE. Love this thing!

 

Shoddy pictures aside, much appreciated review ;¬)

 

As a cannuck, this thing is on my radar... I guess I’ll just start amassing the funds required to spring for the «HD» implementation.

post #1190 of 1808
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

Although the two units are very different from each other in terms of functionality, I managed to directly compare the CEntrance HiFi-M8 with the Concero HP, as they're the two things I have on hand at the moment.

 

The conclusion? I like the HP better. It provides a more sophisticated and refined sound, while being just as detailed. Detail levels on the two units are on par with each other, the main difference being that the HP makes even subtle details feel "macro" and inviting to listen to. The M8 seems to present detail more matter of factly, leading to some elements being slightly distracting. Dynamically, the Concero HP is livelier, with a better sense of "sound density". Vocals feel significantly fuller, instruments feel more three dimensional and project deeper within the soundstage. The M8's thinner, matter-of-fact presentation, and greater driving power makes instrumental separation feel a little better, but I don't feel I'm missing out on much with the HP. In my view, the Concero HP takes the cake. Its background levels are blacker and the sound just feels more mature. Of course, the M8 sounds great and it's ultra versatile, far beyond basically any portable rig around, but I really don't need all that functionality, so I'll keep the Concero HP, thank you very much.

 

Thanks for the comparo - good to know. The M8 does look like a killer product when you consider all the feedback that went into making it, the multiple options available, and just the fact that it's a true portable rather than transportable. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeteeyou View Post
 

I've read that ADA4627 should be such a good match for HD800 here

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/513233/neco-soundlabs-portable-v-2-amp/225#post_9781017

 

Is there a way to request AD8397 to be replaced by ADA4627 since both of them should be fine with 5V from USB

 

It doesn't really work like that. That's like saying a certain tube always sounds the same, in every tube amp it might fit in to. Which of course is not the case at all - each circuit has different parameters which make it sound unique. So while certain opamps might earn a reputation as sounding "dark" or "fast" or whatever, that doesn't really work across the board. Resonessence chose the best opamp for this particular circuit, certainly after playing with all the options they had available. So no need to mess with it. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francoy View Post
 

 

Shoddy pictures aside, much appreciated review ;¬)

 

As a cannuck, this thing is on my radar... I guess I’ll just start amassing the funds required to spring for the «HD» implementation.

 

 

Thanks! I do think it's worth it to go all the way for the HD, assuming you have a nice enough system to bring out the benefits (and it appears you do). 


Edited by project86 - 10/6/13 at 10:04pm
post #1191 of 1808

I might end up buying two of those since I need to find:

A/ a tiny DAC to put on my HTPC for hifi purpose

 

B/ a tiny self powered dac to put after my carpc to feed the alpine H800 processor.

 

And the ressonance is perfect for that it seems, with a price tag not too high:)

post #1192 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post
 

Also... I prefer the sound of the original Concero. The HD/HP has a smidge more energy up top which isn't optimal in my rig.

 

...I think.

 

Gotta give the HD another thorough go-round just to be sure.

post #1193 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post  Thanks for the comparo - good to know. The M8 does look like a killer product when you consider all the feedback that went into making it, the multiple options available, and just the fact that it's a true portable rather than transportable.

 

Yes, the M8 one of those "Swiss Army Knife" type of devices --- it feels like it can literally do everything. It's just that I prefer small DAPs and shun portable rigs, so I have no use for the M8 other than in the same capacity as the HP, so it's just down to the SQ for me, and I prefer the HP for its center focus and better textured low end, as well as blacker background. I'm quite sure that some people would probably actually prefer the M8 on sound quality alone, and vice versa, so it's probably a moot point to compare the two anyway.

post #1194 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post
 

Concero HD review is now posted HERE. Love this thing!

So the HD has variable (32 bit digital) volume output?  As in it could be used as a preamp (connected directly to a power amp input)?  Have you tried that configuration?

post #1195 of 1808
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapetech View Post

So the HD has variable (32 bit digital) volume output?  As in it could be used as a preamp (connected directly to a power amp input)?  Have you tried that configuration?

Yes, it does work that way. The volume control is the internal Sabre chip implementation, which does a good job I think. Though of course if you routinely find yourself at -60dB.... You are losing resolution for for. So it depends on your system. I used it driving the Nuforce STA-100 amp as well as the Parasound Halo A23, and the little HD did a mighty credible job in both cases.
post #1196 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post
 

Concero HD review is now posted HERE. Love this thing!

Thank you for another wonderful review. But one usual part is missing this time – comparison with products from different companies, that is Matrix X-sabre and Yulong DA8 in first place.

How would you stack up Concero HD and this 2 products in terms of sound quality (for listening mainly to classical music through Stax headphones)?

post #1197 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

Although the two units are very different from each other in terms of functionality, I managed to directly compare the CEntrance HiFi-M8 with the Concero HP, as they're the two things I have on hand at the moment.

 

The conclusion? I like the HP better. It provides a more sophisticated and refined sound, while being just as detailed. Detail levels on the two units are on par with each other, the main difference being that the HP makes even subtle details feel "macro" and inviting to listen to. The M8 seems to present detail more matter of factly, leading to some elements being slightly distracting. Dynamically, the Concero HP is livelier, with a better sense of "sound density". 

 

If the Concero HP had anywhere near the power of the M8 for driving HE-500 headphones (or beyond), or in balanced mode this comparison would hold a lot more weight.

post #1198 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexby View Post
 

 

If the Concero HP had anywhere near the power of the M8 for driving HE-500 headphones (or beyond), or in balanced mode this comparison would hold a lot more weight.

An adult would have provided some useful information based on what obviously seems to be some time spent with the M8 and HE-500s.  But no.  You chose to go the gratuitous insult route.

 

The world is full of people who don't own HE-500s, and therefore are in no position to compare the performance of the Concero HP and the M8 with the HE-800.  If you have compared them, what you should have done was share your findings with the rest of the community.  That way, we would all be better informed.

 

Sigh.

post #1199 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexby View Post  If the Concero HP had anywhere near the power of the M8 for driving HE-500 headphones (or beyond), or in balanced mode this comparison would hold a lot more weight.

 

Even though I haven't had the opportunity to subjectively evaluate how the HE-500 sounds with the Concero HP, I'd like to contest the fact that it can't adequately power the HE-500.

 

If we go by Tyll's measurements, the HE-500 requires 2.04mW at 0.310 Vrms to reach 90 dB (plenty loud), which if you do the math, also translates to about | 6.58 | mA of required current (not all that important when it comes to orthos, but the AD8397 delivers up to 300 mA, which is plenty for anything under the sun). These requirements should be well within the capabilities of the Concero HP to deliver securely and stably. The HE-500 is not like other, more power-hungry orthos that require tons of voltage swing and power, the obvious one being the HE-6, which requires 1/3 of the maximum RMS voltage swing of the Concero HP just to get to 90 dB, versus the HE-500 which only requires less than 1/10 of the voltage swing (the most important driving parameter for orthos).

 

BTW, I was just offering a subjective comparison based on my personal preferences. I'm not advocating for people to dump their HiFi-M8s and buy an HP. The HiFi-M8 is quite a bit more powerful and much more versatile, but personally, I wouldn't buy anything more than an HD800 (planars are too bulky for my tastes), so I don't have any problem with the HP's power delivery (or lack thereof, as you contend).

post #1200 of 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnspbesq View Post
 

An adult would have provided some useful information based on what obviously seems to be some time spent with the M8 and HE-500s.  But no.  You chose to go the gratuitous insult route.

 

The world is full of people who don't own HE-500s, and therefore are in no position to compare the performance of the Concero HP and the M8 with the HE-800.  If you have compared them, what you should have done was share your findings with the rest of the community.  That way, we would all be better informed.

 

Sigh.

 

 

background clarifications:

 

"an adult" (of which I likely have accumulated more years than you) with more $ to demo multiple DAC/Amps at the same time with HE-500s could share more detailed findings.  I am not in that situation but tomscy2000 is,

so kudos to tomscy2000 for having both DAC/Amps on hand and shedding light on such a comparison.

 

hardly an "insult" to the original poster as I did not claim his sonic findings or subjective preferences were invalid, only that the comparison might not be *as valid* for those with harder headphones to drive.  (maybe the HE-500 aren't those pair after all?  see tomscy2000 reply)

 

true the world is full of people without planars, and it's also full of people (including me) who don't have Concero products laying around to simultaneously evaluate.

I'm in this thread to learn about Concero products. and have.

I'm sorry I can't compare the HP to anything on hand,

and thank you for a reply with no info related to either of the above DAC/Amps either, I suppose we now sit in the same boat.

tomscy2000 has out done us both. 

 

 

foreground:

my comments about HE-500 and driving them are not entirely measurement based, as in the HE-500 thread there are plenty of seasoned folks (well beyond me) recommending that to "make the HE-500 shine, get an amp that provides more than 1W."  Fang may have noted this himself?

hence my initial comments about "lack of power".

 

yet now tomscy2000 has provided Tyll's measurements, some good math and a compelling argument that makes me want to dig further,

seems I should take my HE-500 to the Resonessence booth at RMAF this weekend eh?

;-)

 

if so, I will report my findings if the show room floor isn't completely noise polluted.


Edited by jexby - 10/8/13 at 5:46am
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