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post #151 of 181

Racing can be as time consuming as MMOs. Or perhaps not quite so much because when real fatigued you notice how you just can´t drive all that well and it´s more exhausting so there is less chance you get like the nut cases who die playing world of warcraft because they don´t think they need to sleep or drink. It´s not an efficient way to train either so it´s not like you win anything from grinding which you do in MMOs. It´s MMOs you really should avoid if you want to avoid something to take over your entire life ;). 

 

 Personally I enjoy both. Well not MMO the monthly fees and pay to win philosophy turned me off. I tried the old republic when it got free but never got into it. I have spend many many many hours in single player rpgs though like witcher, KOTOR, Morrowind, Skyrim etc. All of these are superb titles but they do get old after some hundred hours  which simracing do not. It´s insane how many laps you can make around the same circuit and still learn new stuff about it I am talking having done 6000 laps and still learning something new. I admit I am probably not the fastest learner (read natural talent) but oh well :). 

post #152 of 181
Hot lapping Monaco - it's a bit like meditation. You feel perfection is within sight, but you can never quite reach it.

And one single, tiny distraction brings everything to a crashing halt ... literally.
post #153 of 181

Oqvist, you make a good point about fatigue.  I agree that racing really takes a lot of focus and concentration and I think lot of people aren't aware that when you are really putting high demands on your brain, it's actually like a muscle. It burns calories and gets fatigued, just like a muscle and training and conditioning are needed to gain mental endurance, just like physical endurance.

 

I'm going to be moving into a new place in the next couple of weeks.  Once I get settled in I'll re-evaluate sim racing.   I know it's something I'd really enjoy even if I just played Gran Tursimo on my PS3.  The wheel and pedals I imagine make racing games a completely different experience, but I don't want to "try it out" with cheap gear. If I'm going to do it I want some quality hardware to really give me the tactile feedback to make it as immersive as possible.

post #154 of 181

Just had a very frustrating and puzzling race in F1 2012 and I'm wondering if any of you guys that play the game have any insights.

 

Okay, here's the sitch: Hungary GP, Professional difficulty (I'm planning on switching to Legend next season), Red Bull Racing. I did about an hour of practice before the race (in Time Trial, which is where I usually practice ever since they cut FP2 and 3) and set a best time of 1:20.7xx. Checking the Wikipedia article for the 2012 Hungarian GP I figured that was probably good enough, saved my setup and went back into Career mode.

 

Qualifying went about like I expected - I made a mistake in sector 2 during my only Q3 run and set a 1:23.1, but still out-qualified everyone by almost two seconds. So far so good.

 

But when the race started, suddenly I was nowhere. I had absolutely no grip and had to fight tooth and nail to keep Seb behind me (whom I out-qualified by 1.8 seconds) for 5 laps, after which I made an error and both he and Perez shot past me. They then started ditching me at a rate of about 1.2 seconds a lap. Looking at the lap times it's not that the AI is quicker for some reason, it's that I'm definitely slower. They're doing 1:28s or 1:29s at the start which is about what I expect, but I have to push like crazy just to break 1:29 and mostly I'm doing 1:30s.

 

So why? I'm using Normal fuel strategy like I almost always do, standard fuel mix; the tyres only have a lap on them and are at least as fresh as anyone else's. The engine is an old one - it's at 85% power, but it's the same one I qualified with. The feeling I'm getting is definitely that the car has a distinct lack of grip - I'm having to back out of corners because of understeer constantly, although braking distance is not affected. At first I assumed I'd accidentally over-fuled the car, but I confirmed that this was not the case. I'm at a loss to explain it currently...

post #155 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exediron View Post

Just had a very frustrating and puzzling race in F1 2012 and I'm wondering if any of you guys that play the game have any insights.

Okay, here's the sitch: Hungary GP, Professional difficulty (I'm planning on switching to Legend next season), Red Bull Racing. I did about an hour of practice before the race (in Time Trial, which is where I usually practice ever since they cut FP2 and 3) and set a best time of 1:20.7xx. Checking the Wikipedia article for the 2012 Hungarian GP I figured that was probably good enough, saved my setup and went back into Career mode.

Qualifying went about like I expected - I made a mistake in sector 2 during my only Q3 run and set a 1:23.1, but still out-qualified everyone by almost two seconds. So far so good.

But when the race started, suddenly I was nowhere. I had absolutely no grip and had to fight tooth and nail to keep Seb behind me (whom I out-qualified by 1.8 seconds) for 5 laps, after which I made an error and both he and Perez shot past me. They then started ditching me at a rate of about 1.2 seconds a lap. Looking at the lap times it's not that the AI is quicker for some reason, it's that I'm definitely slower. They're doing 1:28s or 1:29s at the start which is about what I expect, but I have to push like crazy just to break 1:29 and mostly I'm doing 1:30s.

So why? I'm using Normal fuel strategy like I almost always do, standard fuel mix; the tyres only have a lap on them and are at least as fresh as anyone else's. The engine is an old one - it's at 85% power, but it's the same one I qualified with. The feeling I'm getting is definitely that the car has a distinct lack of grip - I'm having to back out of corners because of understeer constantly, although braking distance is not affected. At first I assumed I'd accidentally over-fuled the car, but I confirmed that this was not the case. I'm at a loss to explain it currently...

Happens almost always with me; I don't play F1 but GTR2.
Lapping alone with a clear track I'm much faster, when the race starts I'm struggling for grip, because I can't keep on the throttle as much or choose the best lines. The AI always overtakes me.
Another aspect is the setup for low and high speed is different, during qualifying I settle for a more neutral setup, during race it's got more oversteer.
And the start. Because I don't run a mechanical clutch it almost always causes the car to bog down at the start.
post #156 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exediron View Post

Just had a very frustrating and puzzling race in F1 2012 and I'm wondering if any of you guys that play the game have any insights.

Okay, here's the sitch: Hungary GP, Professional difficulty (I'm planning on switching to Legend next season), Red Bull Racing...But when the race started, suddenly I was nowhere. I had absolutely no grip and had to fight tooth and nail to keep Seb behind me ...

It's obvious - you were in Mark's car.

Red Bull made the strategic decision early on that all reliability and performances issues with the RB7, RB8, and RB9 would happen to Mark's car.

The happiest guy in F1 right now must be MW. (okay maybe, Lewis and Nico are close seconds at the moment)




Sorry I'm of no actual help - I never really played 2012.
post #157 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudu View Post

It's obvious - you were in Mark's car.

 

Hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right! I'm surprised my KERS didn't fail when it was obvious I was going to out-qualify Seb... :etysmile:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

Happens almost always with me; I don't play F1 but GTR2.
Lapping alone with a clear track I'm much faster, when the race starts I'm struggling for grip, because I can't keep on the throttle as much or choose the best lines. The AI always overtakes me.
Another aspect is the setup for low and high speed is different, during qualifying I settle for a more neutral setup, during race it's got more oversteer.
And the start. Because I don't run a mechanical clutch it almost always causes the car to bog down at the start.

 

Well, in F1 Parc Ferme is in effect so you're stuck with using whatever setup you had for qualifying in the race. I usually set my cars up for qualifying/late race, although I probably overdid it here judging by my qualifying margin. So that might be a contributing factor. My starts aren't usually great but at least I usually keep even with the guys behind, so if I'm on pole I typically make it first to the first corner.

 

After re-running the race I've figured out some theories: first possibility is that there's something wrong with the car, and I can't rule it out - it isn't the engine though, because I'm definitely low on grip not power (well, both really - this engine is definitely getting changed before Spa); the second theory is that because I didn't do any high-fuel runs the lines I'm using just don't work on a high fuel load and I need to find some new ones. That's probably what it is, I think. It's also possible that Seb and Checo both under-fueled their cars and won't be able to keep up their pace - I wasn't in too much danger of being passed by the rest of the field, after all (until I crashed out of frustration, that is).

 

I'm going to try running the race again and experimenting with new lines / throttle applications (the gearing is also qualifying gearing, so I'm only using 7th gearing on the final straight) and see if that makes a difference. If it does, I'm definitely going to make a point of doing a full-fuel practice from now on :rolleyes:

post #158 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exediron View Post
 

 

Hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right! I'm surprised my KERS didn't fail when it was obvious I was going to out-qualify Seb... :etysmile:

 

 

Well, in F1 Parc Ferme is in effect so you're stuck with using whatever setup you had for qualifying in the race. I usually set my cars up for qualifying/late race, although I probably overdid it here judging by my qualifying margin. So that might be a contributing factor. My starts aren't usually great but at least I usually keep even with the guys behind, so if I'm on pole I typically make it first to the first corner.

 

After re-running the race I've figured out some theories: first possibility is that there's something wrong with the car, and I can't rule it out - it isn't the engine though, because I'm definitely low on grip not power (well, both really - this engine is definitely getting changed before Spa); the second theory is that because I didn't do any high-fuel runs the lines I'm using just don't work on a high fuel load and I need to find some new ones. That's probably what it is, I think. It's also possible that Seb and Checo both under-fueled their cars and won't be able to keep up their pace - I wasn't in too much danger of being passed by the rest of the field, after all (until I crashed out of frustration, that is).

 

I'm going to try running the race again and experimenting with new lines / throttle applications (the gearing is also qualifying gearing, so I'm only using 7th gearing on the final straight) and see if that makes a difference. If it does, I'm definitely going to make a point of doing a full-fuel practice from now on :rolleyes:

 

Some observations and tips I've gathered and been advised on:

-- It takes a few laps to get the grip going, atleast in GTR2 it takes around 2-3 laps to get the heat in (there's no pre-heating of tyres like in F1).

-- Fuel plays a role, yes. The race starts with a full tank, and the car isn't as nimble as in qualifying.

-- The setup plays a *huge* role.  A more grippy setup is good for short runs, in a long race the tyres will quickly lose their grip.

-- *Consistency* is the rule. Whatever the laptime, it needs to be consistent throughout the race. That's what holds your position on the grid. I used to go 'all-in' in the first few laps; it's a gamble, all that progress can be lost in a jist if the car spins out.

 

I'd suggest:

-- Go into qualifying with a slightly safer profile, more neutral, less oversteer. When the car is loaded the oversteer can cause a loss of grip on throttle lift-off.

-- Slow and fast. Slow entry, fast exit. Depends on the track, though.

-- Usually the highest gear should be set such that you never redline the engine on the straight.

-- Monitor the engine specs, where's the power band? It makes quite a difference.

-- Gearing to match the corner configuration....the car should be in the power band when its time to exit....this one I find is the hardest, but has a big payoff.

-- The engine's max RPM also matter. A lower limit allows for quicker gear changes, a higher limit gives more revs to play with.

 

In the end it also depends on the realism of the simulation. I'm not sure what's the quality like for F1, and what all aspects can you control.

Lastly, I've been thinking of using a full steering wheel + pedals setup for a long time, just haven't got the space for it :mad:.  I bet my controls have become the bottleneck.

 

 

As a general advice, take a look at "Tune to Win" by Carroll Smith. Its the best book I've read on tuning race cars. There's some good scientific explanation, and a very thorough analysis of what makes great drivers great, where they push the limits and so on. Once you get a hang of it, you'll be able to tune the car just as you want.


Edited by proton007 - 2/26/14 at 6:28pm
post #159 of 181

:veryevil:

 

Well, at least that weekend is behind me. It will (hopefully!) remain one of the most sordid of my Red Bull career.

 

After some practice I determined that the problem was mostly the lines I was using, which my heavy car couldn't grip onto. I figured out new lines for the corners I was having problems with and ran the race again, telling myself that no matter what happened I'd accept the result this time:

 

Everything went pretty well for the first 50 laps. I had managed to pull out a lead of about 20 seconds with my next and final pit stop due on lap 55 and was taking things a bit easy. On lap 54 as I was making my way through the middle part of the circuit (for those who don't know the Hungaroring very well, the middle part is very twisty and fast with basically no way past anyone) I came up on a Marussia. He blocked me on the racing line despite the blue flags, which was annoying, but then he suddenly got out of the way and I thought 'okay, sure' and went past. I felt a tug at the rear of the car and had to fight hard to keep from spinning; looking in the mirror I saw pieces of Marussia all over the track. I'm not quite sure what happened, but I assume he must have turned in on me as I was lapping him.

 

I got a drive-through penalty for the incident (in F1 2012 you basically always cause incidents, as far as the stewards are concerned). So instead of changing my tyres - which were falling off the cliff by this point - I had to come into the pits and then do another lap before I could get fresh rubber. During that lap Seb overtook me just before the pits, and we entered one after another - I had to wait for him to get tyres before I got my own. Perez passed us both at this point. Finally, exiting the pits 6 seconds behind Sebastian and with 14 laps left, I determined to go for it and push hard to catch him up. I put up a fastest lap of the race on my outlap, but then promptly ran into one of my bane's of the weekend - the other Marussia. This one didn't let me past at all, and blocked me aggressively for half a lap. Against my better judgment I went for an overtake at turn 12, outbraking the Marussia and turning in. He hit me, spinning both of us out in the middle of the track. Hamilton came up and passed me before I could get going the right way again.

 

So now I was in 4th place, half a minute off Perez and Vettel and with Kobayashi breathing down my neck. I tried to stay ahead of him, but I had a KERS failure the next lap and he started to catch me very quickly. As I came onto the main straight I lost grip briefly and the car wiggled; Kobayashi, who was slipstreaming me, smashed into my tail and took his own front wing off. I managed to avoid spinning, but at this point my Red Bull had it must be said sustained serious damage. After Kobayashi dropped back Rosberg was the next in line, but he was 5 seconds back. With only 6 laps to go, I figured I could keep him behind without overdoing it.

 

And I did - until the very last lap, lap 70. Just as I came down and past turn 2 - with Rosberg now a safe 9 seconds behind, or so I thought - the engine hiccuped. I was pretty sure my fuel level was fine, so I hoped it was just an isolated incident. Two turns later it happened gain, only this time I started losing revs rapidly. I pushed the gear as low as I could, but the revs just kept falling. In desperation I emptied my KERS as Rosberg started filling my rear-view mirrors, and then the gears failed and stranded me in 2nd, with probably 6000 rpm maximum. As I limped around the final corner Rosberg shot past me, followed by Kobayashi who had caught back up. For the final insult, just before I crossed the line, a Caterham overtook me and pushed me down to 7th.

 

At least there's always next time...

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by proton007 View Post
...

 

In the end it also depends on the realism of the simulation. I'm not sure what's the quality like for F1, and what all aspects can you control.

Lastly, I've been thinking of using a full steering wheel + pedals setup for a long time, just haven't got the space for it :mad:.  I bet my controls have become the bottleneck.

 

As a general advice, take a look at "Tune to Win" by Carroll Smith. Its the best book I've read on tuning race cars. There's some good scientific explanation, and a very thorough analysis of what makes great drivers great, where they push the limits and so on. Once you get a hang of it, you'll be able to tune the car just as you want.

 

Some good advice. I've played GTR2, and it is more in-depth and detailed than F1 2012 - hard for me to say which is more accurate, since I've never driven anything resembling an F1 car, but I suspect it would be GTR2. You can control things like spring stiffness, roll bars, wings, toe-in/camber, ride height, etc. You can play with the gearing too, but only within some specified parameters. I do use a wheel/pedals (G25), and my opinion is that while it may not give too much lap time over a controller (vast amounts over a keyboard) it does give greatly improved feel and enjoyment.

 

I'll look at Tune to Win - it sounds like a good read. I have a book by Alain Prost (can't remember the name right now) which is really good for the basic principles of racing and setup, but doesn't go into too much detail.

post #160 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exediron View Post
 

 

Some good advice. I've played GTR2, and it is more in-depth and detailed than F1 2012 - hard for me to say which is more accurate, since I've never driven anything resembling an F1 car, but I suspect it would be GTR2. You can control things like spring stiffness, roll bars, wings, toe-in/camber, ride height, etc. You can play with the gearing too, but only within some specified parameters. I do use a wheel/pedals (G25), and my opinion is that while it may not give too much lap time over a controller (vast amounts over a keyboard) it does give greatly improved feel and enjoyment.

 

Yep. The amount of settings in GTR2 is mind boggling, but somehow it all makes a difference (I mean, they're not there for show, because they're all factored in the simulation). Fun, but its time consuming. I've got some pretty good results by following the book I listed and some gradual tuning, but then I can imagine going through the same process for every track, which means a lot of time is needed.

Also, a wheel and pedals are probably the best way to tune, without that there's no way to feel the steering feedback.

 

Now I'm eagerly awaiting the release of GTR3....

post #161 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post
 

 

Yep. The amount of settings in GTR2 is mind boggling, but somehow it all makes a difference (I mean, they're not there for show, because they're all factored in the simulation). Fun, but its time consuming. I've got some pretty good results by following the book I listed and some gradual tuning, but then I can imagine going through the same process for every track, which means a lot of time is needed.

Also, a wheel and pedals are probably the best way to tune, without that there's no way to feel the steering feedback.

 

Now I'm eagerly awaiting the release of GTR3....

 

I thought GTR3 got canned and SimBin were only focussed on RaceRoom... Hopefully I'm completely wrong though, would love to see a sequel.

 

On a side note, what are you guys mainly playing at the moment?

 

I'm giving PCARS a break because the driving model remains quite spotty, it's a bloody shame because both the vehicle and track selection (not to mention the visuals) are fantastic. I'm thinking about taking the plunge into the Assetto Corsa early access, anyone here playing it much? I keep hearing good things on the PCARS forum about the underlying simulation model of AC so I'm very interested.

post #162 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjapirate9901 View Post
 

 

I thought GTR3 got canned and SimBin were only focussed on RaceRoom... Hopefully I'm completely wrong though, would love to see a sequel.

 

I haven't heard about that. Infact I haven't heard any news about GTR3 in a while. Simbin's also silent on this one, and the website's still up.

 

I guess thats it then.

post #163 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post
 

 

I haven't heard about that. Infact I haven't heard any news about GTR3 in a while. Simbin's also silent on this one, and the website's still up.

 

I guess thats it then.

 

Looks that way :(

 

Would have been great to see a full on GTR3...

 

On a side note, I'm thinking about grabbing a T500RS. Never tried one before (only wheels I've used in the last few years have been the G27 and CSR Elite) but my buddy swears by one. Anyone here using one or have used one in the past?

post #164 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjapirate9901 View Post

Looks that way frown.gif

Would have been great to see a full on GTR3...

The response for RRRE has been mild at best.
People still can't stop comparing it to GTR2 and Race07.
So don't lose hope. It's possible they'll be forced to come up with a GTR3 after all.
post #165 of 181

I recently got a new computer, and then I got a Logitech G27 wheel, shifter, and pedals. I'm getting hopelessly addicted to iRacing now, but I'm still a rookie and still learning. I like the way iRacing focuses on a safety rating so that one must learn to drive safely as well as fast in order to move up to better races. I've only been playing for two months now. I started with a game controller, but it's much more fun with the steering wheel. Having a clutch and an H-pattern shifter or paddle shifters is just fun! I'm running both oval and road races and trying to work my way up. I'm gradually getting better.  :smile:

 

Here's a low-fi picture of my set-up. Yes, I know the cable management is lacking in this photo! :o 

 

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